St Malachy & The Prophecy of the Popes

[TrueLight]

Brothers and Sisters,

Someone mentioned to me that I should look into St. Malachy and the prophecy of the Popes.

The person said that according to the prophecy there were going to be 2-3 Popes left at best and then the end would come.

Has anyone had any exposure to this? What are your thoughts?

More info here:

Thanks.

 

[Will_S]

Brothers and Sisters,

Someone mentioned to me that I should look into St. Malachy and the prophecy of the Popes.

The person said that according to the prophecy there were going to be 2-3 Popes left at best and then the end would come.

Has anyone had any exposure to this? What are your thoughts?

More info here:

Thanks.

The current pope is the last pope before “Peter the Roman” in the list.
Don’t put too much credence in this stuff.

 

[TrueLight]

The current pope is the last pope before “Peter the Roman” in the list.
Don’t put too much credence in this stuff.

Oh okay.

I am naturally skeptical, but I try to have an open mind.

 

[GloriousOrder]

I personally believe we should ignore every single end-times prophecy, even if an orthodox cardinal were to set a date. It is all absolute arrogance and foolishness to go on and on about such things. Be ready in your heart every day for the coming of Christ, because He makes His Second Coming for each of us the moment we die anyway. No use sitting about wringing our hands at dumb predictions.

 

[Robertanthony]

Brothers and Sisters,

Someone mentioned to me that I should look into St. Malachy and the prophecy of the Popes.

The person said that according to the prophecy there were going to be 2-3 Popes left at best and then the end would come.

Has anyone had any exposure to this? What are your thoughts?

More info here:

Thanks.

I’m not saying I’m 100% sure about that prophecy, but I give it a certain amount of credibility. I think the next pope could very well be the one who carries the Church through its ultimate (meaning last and greatest) tribulation. I think in Catholic circles there is a strong reluctance to talk about the end-times, let alone set a date, for reasons that escape me. We could very well be within a decade or two of the end. I’m also watching closely what is happening in the Israel-Palestine situation, and who will manage to bring peace over there.

 

[puzzleannie]

Brothers and Sisters,

Someone mentioned to me that I should look into St. Malachy Thanks.

did your well meaning friend also happen to mention it is a hoax that was uncovered long ago?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

From what I recall having read around the time of the last conclave, I believe the mainstream theory is that the “prophesy” is a forgery written several centuries after the death of St. Malachy.

 

[Robertanthony]

did your well meaning friend also happen to mention it is a hoax that was uncovered long ago?

By whom? “Widely considered” and “the mainstream theory” do not equal “hoax”. Please substantiate.

 

[ChadS]

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Best to ignore them.

ChadS

 

[Godfollower]

Brothers and Sisters,

Someone mentioned to me that I should look into St. Malachy and the prophecy of the Popes.

The person said that according to the prophecy there were going to be 2-3 Popes left at best and then the end would come.

Has anyone had any exposure to this? What are your thoughts?

More info here:

Thanks.

Among other issues, St. Malachy lived in the twelfth century, and his alleged prophecy magically appeared 400 years later without ever having been heard of before then. All of the descriptions before it was suddenly “found” are remarkably accurate (Sixtus IV was described as “a minorite fisherman;” his father was a fisherman, and he was a member of the Franciscans, also known as the Minorites); all of the ones after it became public, not so much (Gregory XIV is only described as “Of the antiquity of the city;” if you want the prophecy to be true, you’ll accept “Well, Milan is a city, his dad was a senator there, and the word ‘senator’ is related to the word for old man” as proof).

By way of example, the line that fits in place in the list for Pope Benedict XVI is “Glory of the Olive.” Cardinal Ratzinger chose the name Benedict for his papal name; there used to be a guy named St. Benedict; there’s a religious order named after him (the Benedictines); one of the symbols of that order is the olive; aha! Proof (never mind that Cardinal Ratzinger was never a Benedictine)! And on top of that, during the papal conclave following Pope John Paul’s II’s death, Cardinal Ratzinger was Cardinal Bishop of the Sees of Ostia and Velletri-Segni; and the town of Velletri has three olives on its coat of arm; aha! Proof (never mind that Cardinal Ratzinger isn’t actually from Velletri)!

Basically it’s just a game of Kevin Bacon: given the description in the “prophecy,” how many links does it take you to get to the pope in question?

It isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.

 

[MarkThompson]

By way of example, the line that fits in place in the list for Pope Benedict XVI is “Glory of the Olive.” Cardinal Ratzinger chose the name Benedict for his papal name; there used to be a guy named St. Benedict; there’s a religious order named after him (the Benedictines); one of the symbols of that order is the olive; aha! Proof (never mind that Cardinal Ratzinger was never a Benedictine)! And on top of that, during the papal conclave following Pope John Paul’s II’s death, Cardinal Ratzinger was Cardinal Bishop of the Sees of Ostia and Velletri-Segni; and the town of Velletri has three olives on its coat of arm; aha! Proof (never mind that Cardinal Ratzinger isn’t actually from Velletri)!

And never mind that Joseph Ratzinger is one of only a tiny number of popes in history to come from a country – in his case, Germany – where the olive tree doesn’t grow at all!

 

[Mike_Dye]

Before I give a definitive answer I need to check with Rev. Harold Camping

 

[ajpirc]

Before I give a definitive answer I need to check with Rev. Harold Camping

Nice!

 

[Rascalking]

OP-Don’t waste your time worrying about this stuff. I mean, if you want to, knock yourself out, but your wasting your time just the same.

 

[Robertanthony]

My lonely boat is sinking fast in a sea of skepticism!

 

[ajpirc]

I’m confused here.

Were the prophecies just added everytime a new pope was elected or were they predicted when the rest of them were in, I think someone said the 1600’s? Because each prophecy is pretty accurate for each Pope.

 

[Robertanthony]

According to Jharek, it first popped up in 1590, so the “prophecies” up until that time had been written after the events, making them non-prophecies If you think any prophecy concerning a pope elected from 1600 onward fits to a “t”, we have a problem (and my boat might resurface, if only temporarily)

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m confused here.

Were the prophecies just added everytime a new pope was elected or were they predicted when the rest of them were in, I think someone said the 1600’s? Because each prophecy is pretty accurate for each Pope.

The “prophecies” are moderately accurate up to the time the prophecy was written (the late 16th century), because, of course, those things had already happened. It would be like me writing a “prophecy” about the presidents from Washington to Obama: “Plantation-owning general,” “Statesman from Quincy” and so on.

After that point (when the writer actually was writing about the future), for every one “prophecy” that rounds right, there are about ten that fall into one of these categories:

1. So vague they could be about anyone: “Angelic shepherd,” “Intrepid faith,” “Religious man,” etc. Gee, you don’t say! A pope being a religious man! And actually, although some popes were professed religious, Pius VIII was not a member of any religious order, making him technically a secular man.
2. Just wrong. Benedict XIII gets “Soldier in war,” but he was neither a soldier nor involved in any war. Clement IX gets “Star of the swans,” with the explanation, “The Italian word for swan, ‘Cigni,’ rhymes with Pope Alexander’s last name, ‘Chigi’.” Uh, no it doesn’t. Cigni is pronounced “Chee-nyee”; Chigi is pronounced “Kee-jee.”
3. Prophecies that are “verified” with reasoning like, “well, his brother’s best friend’s mother-in-law knew a guy who came from a family that had a flower on its coat of arms.” So, for example, Gregory XVI gets “From the baths of Tuscany,” even though he was not from Tuscany, never lived there and had nothing to do with it, but he belonged to an order one of whose monastic houses (which he did not live in, btw) was called “Fonte Buono,” which means “good fountain” in Italian – and fountains and baths both contain water, right? Totally the same thing. Likewise, Leo IX gets “Wavy man,” and the best explanation anyone can think of it that he was very briefly (1602-05) cardinal-bishop (an honorary post for a top curial official, not the actual ruling bishop) of Palestrina, a city whose founding was legendarily attributed to Ulysses, who was a sailor (and thus went on the waves). Right, that totally makes Pope Leo a Wavy Man. And Clement XII gets “Lofty column” – although his name was Lorenzo, he was one priest of a church dedicated to St. Peter, and “Peter” come from the Greek word petros which means “rock,” and columns are made of rock, aren’t they?

 

[Robertanthony]

The “prophecies” are moderately accurate up to the time the prophecy was written (the late 16th century), because, of course, those things had already happened.

If “prophecies” concerning the past are but “moderately accurate”, it doesn’t bode well for prophecies about the future. Although being a poor historian doesn’t mean one can’t be a great prophet, foreseer of future events. Will someone come to salvage this pseudo-prophecy before my boat sinks for good? Oh well, I’ll bump the thread if the next pope chooses the name Peter II, Petrus II, Pierre II

 

[ajpirc]

The “prophecies” are moderately accurate up to the time the prophecy was written (the late 16th century), because, of course, those things had already happened. It would be like me writing a “prophecy” about the presidents from Washington to Obama: “Plantation-owning general,” “Statesman from Quincy” and so on.

After that point (when the writer actually was writing about the future), for every one “prophecy” that rounds right, there are about ten that fall into one of these categories:

1. So vague they could be about anyone: “Angelic shepherd,” “Intrepid faith,” “Religious man,” etc. Gee, you don’t say! A pope being a religious man! And actually, although some popes were professed religious, Pius VIII was not a member of any religious order, making him technically a secular man.
2. Just wrong. Benedict XIII gets “Soldier in war,” but he was neither a soldier nor involved in any war. Clement IX gets “Star of the swans,” with the explanation, “The Italian word for swan, ‘Cigni,’ rhymes with Pope Alexander’s last name, ‘Chigi’.” Uh, no it doesn’t. Cigni is pronounced “Chee-nyee”; Chigi is pronounced “Kee-jee.”
3. Prophecies that are “verified” with reasoning like, “well, his brother’s best friend’s mother-in-law knew a guy who came from a family that had a flower on its coat of arms.” So, for example, Gregory XVI gets “From the baths of Tuscany,” even though he was not from Tuscany, never lived there and had nothing to do with it, but he belonged to an order one of whose monastic houses (which he did not live in, btw) was called “Fonte Buono,” which means “good fountain” in Italian – and fountains and baths both contain water, right? Totally the same thing. Likewise, Leo IX gets “Wavy man,” and the best explanation anyone can think of it that he was very briefly (1602-05) cardinal-bishop (an honorary post for a top curial official, not the actual ruling bishop) of Palestrina, a city whose founding was legendarily attributed to Ulysses, who was a sailor (and thus went on the waves). Right, that totally makes Pope Leo a Wavy Man. And Clement XII gets “Lofty column” – although his name was Lorenzo, he was one priest of a church dedicated to St. Peter, and “Peter” come from the Greek word petros which means “rock,” and columns are made of rock, aren’t they?

So, some were written after and some before the papacies?

It sounds like people just tried to connect the name of the “prophesied” popes the best way they could with the life of the popes real popes the best they could in order to make the prophesy sound good.