St Mary's Church told to toe Vatican line or be shut down

[MoBeck]

tinyurl.com/5nu4sk

St Mary’s Church told to toe Vatican line or be shut down

THE death knell has sounded for St Mary’s South Brisbane after Archbishop John Bathersby warned the church to toe the Vatican line or shut down.

In a three-page letter delivered to parish priest Father Peter Kennedy on the weekend, Archbishop Bathersby said St Mary’s was operating outside practices and policies acceptable to the Roman Catholic Church.

Matters came to a head after a parishioner claimed the church contained a small statue of a Buddhist monk praying.

The church - where women can preach, homosexual couples can be blessed and social justice is championed - has a congregation of about 700 that would be the envy of many parishes.
About 300 church members at Sunday morning’s Mass listened stunned as Fr Kennedy read out excerpts from Archbishop Bathersby’s ultimatum.

“The question for me,” the Archbishop wrote, “is not so much whether St Mary’s should be closed down, but whether St Mary’s will close itself down by practices that separate it from communion with the Roman Catholic Church.”

 

[Layman]

Quote: “In 2004 St Mary’s incurred the Archbishop’s ire after a disaffected person reported baptismal liturgies were being changed slightly.”

Quote: “He cited a number of issues including allegedly unorthodox masses being practised and the hierarchical authority of the Church not being respected.”

Quote: "Fr Kennedy said the first meeting of the church community to discuss the church’s future would be held tonight.

Asked whether he was hopeful St Mary’s could resolve the issues to the Archbishop’s satisfaction, he said: “I’m not particularly hopeful myself, but it’s up to the community ***… they ***will find the right solution.”" [my italics]

This, and the picture of Fr. Kennedy in casual clothes, at the lectern, reading the Bishops letter, say a lot to me. Changing baptismal liturgies is extremely serious.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

tinyurl.com/5nu4sk

I see nothing here, the web site looks begin and like any other parish.

“A very right-wing parishioner came and was offended by some of the artwork in the church, including some indigenous art, and an image of a praying monk which they mistook as a Buddha,” the parishioner said.

Here is the story that was linked too, it is different than the OP. It was apparently a praying Catholic monk someone mistook to be a Buddha (due to art style I would guess). I see an unnecessary witch hunt here.

 

[cerad]

“The question for me,” the Archbishop wrote, “is not so much whether St Mary’s should be closed down, but whether St Mary’s will close itself down by practices that separate it from communion with the Roman Catholic Church.”

This sounds a lot like the old adage: God doesn’t send people to hell, people choose hell.

So even though it will be the Archbishop who padlocks the doors and sells off all the assets (I wonder what a Buddha statue will fetch?), it’s really the parishioners that are to blame. Oh well, with a billion members losing a mere 700 is rather insignificant.

 

[Nohome]

Oh well, with a billion members losing a mere 700 is rather insignificant.

I suspect Jesus would disagree with you.

Nohome

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

This sounds a lot like the old adage: God doesn’t send people to hell, people choose hell.

So even though it will be the Archbishop who padlocks the doors and sells off all the assets (I wonder what a Buddha statue will fetch?), it’s really the parishioners that are to blame. Oh well, with a billion members losing a mere 700 is rather insignificant.

If you read the top link, the statue was smashed to pieces by the same “right-wing” (term from article) person who over-reacted over nothing.

 

[Layman]

I’m afraid changing the liturgy, especially the baptismal one, is very serious. It’s the first step on the road to Satanic behaviour; drawing away, bit by bit, from Jesus, and embracing, what? Narcissism, pride and indifferentism, by the looks of things.

Any child baptised at that church by the incumbent clergy should be re-baptised immediately.

Read the article, and the comments underneath it. It’s Inclusivists & Anti-Papists vs. The Faithful.

If you don’t want to accept the rule of your bishop and/or standard Catholic practice, there’s an alternative. It’s called Protestantism.

 

[Oz_Girl]

I live in Brisbane though I haven’t been to this Parish I have been following the story closely. The thing that annoys me the most is the people that are claim that the Archbishop John should shut because they have 700 members (which would be a bessing) but what good is it to have 700 members when you bless homosexual relationship, change the words to the mass and yes have buddish statues in the church. (Some people are claiming that it wasn’t a buddish statue but then at the same time people are claiming that it wasn’t in the church but a side room). The Catholic Church is fighting a battle in Australia and we don’t need Catholic thinking that they can change the rules to suit them.

If anyone is interested the letter sent by the Archbishop is at their website www.bne.catholic.net.au

 

[laariii2]

I also live in Brisbane as this has been going on for years. The Church has had plenty of warnings.
They boast that they care about social issues - so does my home parish.We have petitions on aboriginal issues, immigration, pro-life issues etc.
My home parish is also orthodox, does not bless homosexual unions & has valid baptisms.

 

[Layman]

I read the bishop’s letter at that site. A good read. It’s plain to me that St. Mary’s has not being practicing Catholicism.

My opinion: Priests make a grave error when they try to please their congregation in everything. They should lead, not follow. People like that. Catholicism requires us to try to become saints. That’s not easy. Giving the public what they want is what market stallholders do, not priests.

 

[rien]

Interesting article in Aug/Sept CWR. “I am not changing” About Father Phleger.

ignatius.com/Magazines/CWR/contents_aug-sept08.htm

It mentions how he has refused to leave his parish - defying the typical rotoating assignement. How the bishop has backed down. How the parish is questinable or even recognizable as a catholic church.

Yet he is winning lots of followers. The parish is now the largest in Chicago with over 2000 families.

When pressed one archdiocesan spokesman said that the Bishop has spent this past 10 years or so building up orthodox seminary rather than fighting Phleger. Then the article notices that there are virtually no native vocation in the seminary.

Its more than creating orthodox seminaries. If a potential priest sees essentially “independent” parishes and pastors in a diocese allowed to do their own thing they are not going to join the local seminary no matter how orthodox.

 

[JaMc]

Interesting article in Aug/Sept CWR. “I am not changing” About Father Phleger.

ignatius.com/Magazines/CWR/contents_aug-sept08.htm

It mentions how he has refused to leave his parish - defying the typical rotoating assignement. How the bishop has backed down. How the parish is questinable or even recognizable as a catholic church.

Yet he is winning lots of followers. The parish is now the largest in Chicago with over 2000 families.

When pressed one archdiocesan spokesman said that the Bishop has spent this past 10 years or so building up orthodox seminary rather than fighting Phleger. Then the article notices that there are virtually no native vocation in the seminary.

Its more than creating orthodox seminaries. If a potential priest sees essentially “independent” parishes and pastors in a diocese allowed to do their own thing they are not going to join the local seminary no matter how orthodox.

I am not sure if discussions of Fr. Pfleger are still verboten, but, if now allowed - I agree. Why would any orthodox seminarian in his right mind want anything to do with a diocese in which a “Catholic” priest, who, not only openly defies his bishop, but publicly endorses a rabidly pro-abortion politician from the pulpit of a protestant church earns only a 2-week suspension and a mealy-mouthed reprimand about how “we don’t think priests should get involved in politics”?

 

[rien]

I am not sure if discussions of Fr. Pfleger are still verboten, but, if now allowed - I agree. Why would any orthodox seminarian in his right mind want anything to do with a diocese in which a “Catholic” priest, who, not only openly defies his bishop, but publicly endorses a rabidly pro-abortion politician from the pulpit of a protestant church earns only a 2-week suspension and a mealy-mouthed reprimand about how “we don’t think priests should get involved in politics”?

Well, the “law” seems to be handed down in a quite specific way by the church.

Here is a quote from the description of the Little Rock diocese’s history which is front and center on the official site"

“In October 2007, for the first time in the diocese’s history, a formal declaration of excommunication was issued by the Catholic Church for six nuns in Hot Springs. The Monastery of Our Lady of Charity and Refuge sisters received the penalty for their continued involvement in the Community of the Lady of All Nations, also known as the Army of Mary. It is a schismatic association based in Quebec, Canada.”

Now I am not a traditionalist and have huge problems with them - their general failure to embrace evangelism is stunning to me, most FSSP parishes are stagnant. Not bringing in souls. And is that not the point?!

But it is true that heresy on the left goes generally unchecked while heresy on the right is treated far more severely.

It does not add up and this is why I do not personally find truth in the Catholic church.

 

[Layman]

If “Lady of All Nations” refers to ‘Our Lady Of Amsterdam’, that is a dodgy apparition. Not sure if it’s approved, but the image used to promote it, and the phrase associated with it ‘Who once was Mary’, are red flags, to me.

Be nice to have priests who just do the sacraments properly e.g. The Latin Mass, and no more, and have nuns who wear their habit, worship God properly first, then get involved in helping the sick and the poor, and leave the social ‘issues’ of the day to those who seek to advance themselves by championing them i.e. politicians.

If you are in a right relation with God, everything else goes easier. You will have trials, but they will be tinged with sweetness. If you fuss over this World first, empty tribulation will be your constant bedfellow.

 

[Brendan]

. The Monastery of Our Lady of Charity and Refuge sisters received the penalty for their continued involvement in the Community of the Lady of All Nations, also known as the Army of Mary. It is a schismatic association based in Quebec, Canada."

Now I am not a traditionalist and have huge problems with them - their general failure to embrace evangelism is stunning to me, most FSSP parishes are stagnant. Not bringing in souls. And is that not the point?!

But it is true that heresy on the left goes generally unchecked while heresy on the right is treated far more severely.

It does not add up and this is why I do not personally find truth in the Catholic church.

The “Army of Mary” was not a ‘traditionalist’ organization in any true sense of the word. In fact, it had some pretty wacked out theology. The foundress (Marie-Paule Giguère) claimed to be the reincarnation of Mary.

Not exactly what one would call acceptable Catholic teaching

 

[rien]

The “Army of Mary” was not a ‘traditionalist’ organization in any true sense of the word. In fact, it had some pretty wacked out theology. The foundress (Marie-Paule Giguère) claimed to be the reincarnation of Mary.

Not exactly what one would call acceptable Catholic teaching

It was in the traditionalist camp just like the woemn being ordained as priests lately are in the progressive camp. These are generalizations always.

But my points remain, traditionalist who are in heresy get more grief from the officla church than progressives who are in heresy do.

And I re-itertate, traditionalists are IMO lacking the fullness in many case because of their inability, refusal - I don’t know what it really is - to evangelize and win souls. The TLM may be great but if a parish , like the FSSP parishes, is not winning converts then somehow they are not quite conforming to the great commission. JMHO.

 

[Paradox2080]

Mmm, a picture tells a thousand words…check out the so called parish priest below.

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6214888,00.jpg
What a joke!!

If you ask me, this priest has excommunicated himself from the true church. I have absolutely no respect for any Catholic priest who dresses like this.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

IMO, that picture prooves nothing without some context: for all we know he was just putting papers in order for the next mass-- we can’t tell if the Sacrifice was in progress.

And that’s been my issue with this story all along. I do know some reactionary types who are much more Catholic than any priest, most bishops, and a few popes. It’s a pity the ‘right wing’ parishoner destroyed the statue instead of photographing it.

At any rate, I do trust that the Archbishop’s judgement-- if he says there’s an issue, then there is.

But frankly, that priest doesn’t look long for this world. Wonder if, from a purely strategic sense, they should have waited him out. At least now he’ll haved to declare himself for Rome, or against her…

 

[Layman]

Well, it looks like he’s actually showing the Bishop’s letter, there. And that would be in church, surely?

Anyway, I thought the Bishop’s letter was charitable and well-reasoned. In the old days I imagine he’d have been told to conform, or be unfrocked, in no uncertain terms.

My opinion only: If it’s gone this far, and this public, it must be very bad there, as a trendy priest doing just an NO Mass with all the normal abuses would slide on by these days, I’d guess.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

Well, its definetly ‘in’ church, but is it ‘during’ church, so to speak? I find it odd that even a arch-liberal priest would celebrate mass with no vestments, since the entire point for most of them is to appropriate the outward symbology of the church to garner creditablity while subverting the contents of the faith…

I also find it a little strange that the parish is so insistent that it wasn’t a Budist statue. A lot of the more liberal folks I know would have celebrated the fact…

At any rate, I hope it has a happy ending. I think we are going to see a time very soon when liberal parishes, maybe even whole diocese, will take over real estate in their areas, effecting a new schism. They’ll probably pay lip service to Rome, but insist that they know best how to teach and preach in their locale.