St. Michael the Archangel Catholic Church in Baltimore and Gay Marriage

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For those who live in Maryland, this “catholic” church lists itself as and “independent” catholic church and apparently has performed a gay marriage. On its website it states that all the sacraments are valid. I am assuming “all” is certainly referring to Communion. Please have a look at the website site below. How can this be? I hope someone can explain this to me. Is this church still in union with Rome and would, in fact, receiving Communion in this church be valid or a sacrilege?

saintmichaelnewcatholic.org/about-us.html
 
lakotak said:
For those who live in Maryland, this “catholic” church lists itself as and “independent” catholic church and apparently has performed a gay marriage. On its website it states that all the sacraments are valid. I am assuming “all” is certainly referring to Communion. Please have a look at the website site below. How can this be? I hope someone can explain this to me. Is this church still in union with Rome and would, in fact, receiving Communion in this church be valid or a sacrilege?

saintmichaelnewcatholic.org/about-us.html
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If the priest was validly ordained, if valid matter ( wheat bread and grape wine) and a valid Eucharistic Prayer is used, the Sacrament of the Eucharist is confected.

A valid ordination can come from any valid episcopal line, including those which are separated from Rome, such as the ‘Old Catholic’, Polish National Catholic, or even Orthodox (though they guard their ordinations very carefully)

So yes, it is possible that the Eucharist is valid in this ‘parish’. But, as the saying goes, “Christ is present, but he sure isn’t happy about it”

Their Baptisms would be valid, as anyone can Baptize, for those who were not born Catholics, their weddings would be valid, at least those which involve a single, unmarried man and a single unmarried woman.

Their confessions would not be valid, as those require faculties from the local, true, Bishop.
 
lakotak said:
For those who live in Maryland, this “catholic” church lists itself as and “independent” catholic church and apparently has performed a gay marriage. On its website it states that all the sacraments are valid. I am assuming “all” is certainly referring to Communion. Please have a look at the website site below. How can this be? I hope someone can explain this to me. Is this church still in union with Rome and would, in fact, receiving Communion in this church be valid or a sacrilege?

saintmichaelnewcatholic.org/about-us.html
Click to expand...
They are not in communion with Rome, so attendance there does not fulfill your Sunday obligation regardless of whether or not they can validly confect the Eucharist.
 
You probably can licitly recieve communion and confession but you should probably contact your diocese to make sure. Also, I don’t think that you can fulfill your Sunday obligation there.
 
Check the website of the diocese (or call) and verify if this church is listed as a parish in communion with Bishop Lori. If it isn’t (and sounds like it’s not since they bill themselves as independent), then consider them as a protestant church and don’t attend Mass there.

Whether or not the priest there was validly ordained is a separate question. The next question is if he has proper facilities to offer the sacraments in the diocese. However, rather than chasing all that down it would be much easier to simply avoid the place.

Considering how many valid parishes there are in the Baltimore and greater Baltimore/DC area, it will be very unlikely that you will be in an emergency situation and this parish/priest be the only resource you have!
 
lakotak said:
For those who live in Maryland, this “catholic” church lists itself as and “independent” catholic church and apparently has performed a gay marriage. On its website it states that all the sacraments are valid. I am assuming “all” is certainly referring to Communion. Please have a look at the website site below. How can this be? I hope someone can explain this to me. Is this church still in union with Rome and would, in fact, receiving Communion in this church be valid or a sacrilege?

saintmichaelnewcatholic.org/about-us.html
Click to expand...
I would believe if an ordained Catholic priest did allegedly perform a gay marriage inside a Catholic Church it would automatically be illicit and nulified. No sacramental marriage would have taken place. As far as the justice of the secular courts yes the gay couple would be married. However; No sacrament would have taken place.
 
centurionguard said:
I would believe if an ordained Catholic priest did allegedly perform a gay marriage inside a Catholic Church it would automatically be illicit and nulified. No sacramental marriage would have taken place. As far as the justice of the secular courts yes. No sacrament would have taken place.
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Correct. The coupke in a homosexual “marriage” is not “valid matter” for the sacrament. No sacrament can take place.

It’s just like the Eucharist. It can’t be confected w/o wheat bread and wine.

If the Pope himself attempted to confect the Eucharist with a rice cake, and apple juice, no sacrament would occur.

God Bless
 
devoutchristian said:
You probably can licitly recieve communion and confession but you should probably contact your diocese to make sure. Also, I don’t think that you can fulfill your Sunday obligation there.
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The Eucharist is valid, but Catholics in union with Rome are prohibited from participating, so it would not be a licit reception of Holy Communion.

In addition, since they are separated from the local Bishop, outside of cases of emergency, Sacramental Confession there would not be valid at all (your sins would remain).
 
Elizium23 said:
Somewhat incorrect. The matter and form of Matrimony is the consummation, not the couple.

Ordinarily, a non-consummated marriage between a man and a woman may be valid. But no gay “marriage” is valid.
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Your link is a very long article. I can’t find anything that says consumation is the matter, but feel free to correct me.

Your second point seems to contradict your first. If consummation was the matter, and un-consummated marriage couldn’t be valid, but they can be.

God Bless
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Check the website of the diocese (or call) and verify if this church is listed as a parish in communion with Bishop Lori. If it isn’t (and sounds like it’s not since they bill themselves as independent), then consider them as a protestant church and don’t attend Mass there.

Whether or not the priest there was validly ordained is a separate question. The next question is if he has proper facilities to offer the sacraments in the diocese. However, rather than chasing all that down it would be much easier to simply avoid the place.

Considering how many valid parishes there are in the Baltimore and greater Baltimore/DC area, it will be very unlikely that you will be in an emergency situation and this parish/priest be the only resource you have!
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I have no intentions of attending Mass there. However, what got to me was that one of the news agencies listed this as a Catholic Church without stating it was independent. When I first saw this I couldn’t figure out what was going on until I went to their website. This is why I wondered about the other Sacraments.
 
After going to the website, I saw that they write, “Founded in 2010, we are a parish of the New Catholic Church of North America”.

So would they be considered as a member of the New Catholic Church of North America a schism of the Roman Catholic Church and be considered automatically excommunicated from Rome? Thus rendering their sacraments as invalid???

Is this why they call themselves “independent”?

Just throwing it out there. 🤷
 
Elizium23 said:
Ordinarily, a non-consummated marriage between a man and a woman may be valid. But no gay “marriage” is valid.
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I am not so sure about that. My understanding is that valid marriages can not be dissolved, but non-consummated marriages can be.
Code of Canon Law:
CHAPTER IX.

THE SEPARATION OF SPOUSES

Art. 1.

DISSOLUTION OF THE BOND

Can. 1141 A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.

Can. 1142 For a just cause, the Roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.
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vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P44.HTM
 
Oh this one is a hoot and half. :rolleyes:

It’s pretty clear by their own admission , that these people have no connection whatsoever to the Church.

Apparently, the so-called “Archbishop” was originally some sort of Old Catholic priest ordained in 2008 and named “bishop” a year or so later. It also seems that this group is now no longer even part of the Old Catholics. Further, whether even the “Archbishop’s” priestly ordination was valid is questionable. I’ve not found anything detailing who the ordaining bishop for priesthood, much less for episcopacy, was. (And it does make a difference. Whereas Old Catholic orders were considered valid at one time, since they maintained Apostolic Succession, one has to remember that they followed the Anglicans and started having priestesses, and ultimately they started in with bishopesses. Any lineage traced through a so-called bishopess would make any ordination 100% invalid.

Personally, I’d run the other way.
 
😃 Malphono I agree with you.

I call it true deception and another attack upon the one true Church. It is aimed at those people who don’t know the difference.😦
 
This appears to be a new church started by two homosexuals. They make no claims of seminary training or valid ordination.
 
malphono said:
In this case, I’d venture that even that is questionable. See my previous post. 😉
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From the article you linked, this jumped out at me
He is also a Vietnam veteran and an accomplished entrepreneur and manager.
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In reading the web site, it all seemed about money. I noticed in their picture gallery that there were no parishioners. :rolleyes:
 
malphono said:
Oh this one is a hoot and half. :rolleyes:

It’s pretty clear by their own admission , that these people have no connection whatsoever to the Church.

Apparently, the so-called “Archbishop” was originally some sort of Old Catholic priest ordained in 2008 and named “bishop” a year or so later. It also seems that this group is now no longer even part of the Old Catholics. Further, whether even the “Archbishop’s” priestly ordination was valid is questionable. I’ve not found anything detailing who the ordaining bishop for priesthood, much less for episcopacy, was. (And it does make a difference. Whereas Old Catholic orders were considered valid at one time, since they maintained Apostolic Succession, one has to remember that they followed the Anglicans and started having priestesses, and ultimately they started in with bishopesses. Any lineage traced through a so-called bishopess would make any ordination 100% invalid.

Personally, I’d run the other way.
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I see they list the following on the site

All of our Sacraments are valid in the eyes of the Roman Church as reported by both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI and our Apostolic succession is intact.

How can they be independent and valid in the eyes of the Roman Church. I think this is very misleading and could mislead people into thinking that they are speaking for the CHURCH. Just confused and concerned that someone could get into this thinking this is how the true Church is.
 
From their website (emphasis added): “Weddings, Holy Unions, Baptisms and Funerals. All of our services are custom designed to fit your needs and as a result we are able to perform Traditional Catholic services, as well as Protestant, Non-Denominational, Inter-Denominational and Spiritual.”

I don’t think this group is even worth the time spent pondering the questions already asked about it. It’s another Burger King church, this time presenting itself as Catholic (they’re usually non-denominational, but I guess this particular group likes to dress up). Bleh. I feel bad for you guys that groups like this one exist and confuse the heck out of the largely religiously illiterate public.
 
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