St. Patrick - Non-Catholic

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Mystophilus:
Across these five nations, then, we have 54.5% Protestant, 27% Catholic. Protestant dominance throughout the history of England and its colonies from the C16th has had its expected cultural effect.
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It would make more sense if you just gave world population figures. What exactly is the relevance as to whether or not someone speaks English with regards to their understanding of St. Patrick?

“The Catholic Church is the world’s largest religious body (approx. 1 billion members).”

The 2005 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches reported the following figures, based primarily on 2003 denominational reporting data:

1.** Roman Catholic Church: 67.2 million**.
2. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.4 million.
3. United Methodist Church: 8.2 million.
4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: 5.5 million.
5. Church of God in Christ: 5.4 million.
6. National Baptist Convention USA: 5 million.
7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America: 4.9 million.
8. National Baptist Convention of America: 3.5 million.
9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): 3.2 million.
10. Assemblies of God: 2.7 million.

[See example news article: Religion News Service, Charlotte Observer; URL: http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/living/religion/10997090.htm”]http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/living/religion/10997090.htm]
adherents.com/rel_USA.html

WORLDWIDE STATISTICS ON RELIGION - NB – 1 billion = a thousand million.

1 billion of no faith

1 billion Muslims

.8 billion Hindus

.3 billion Buddhists

23 million Sikhs

15 million Jews

1 billion Roman Catholics

.3 billion Protestants

.2 billion Eastern Orthodox

80 million Anglicans

16 million Catholic non-Roman Rite

.2 billion of tribal religions

[Ref. International Bulletin of Missionary Research, 1996/2000; Official Vatican Year Book *Annuario Pontificio , 2003]

cym.perthcatholic.org.au/whynot/comparitive.php
 
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Mystophilus:
Looking at the figures, the predominance of Protestantism is quite clear:
The USA: Protestant 56%, Catholic 28%.
The United Kingdom: 70% Protestant, 14% Catholic.
Canada: 45% Catholic, 20% Protestant.
Australia: 44% Protestant, 27% Catholic.
New Zealand: 47.5% Protestant, 13% Catholic.
Across these five nations, then, we have 54.5% Protestant, 27% Catholic. Protestant dominance throughout the history of England and its colonies from the C16th has had its expected cultural effect.
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What exactly is the relevance of the statistics of Protestants to Catholics in English-speaking countries with regards to St. Patrick?

(Worldwide statistics are here for anyone who is interested: cym.perthcatholic.org.au/whynot/comparitive.php)

You’ve left out the only relevant statistic for the thread which is Ireland:

“The country is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic. According to official government statistics collected during the 2002 census, the religious affiliation of the population is 88.4 percent Roman Catholic, 2.9 percent Church of Ireland (Anglican), 0.52 percent Presbyterian, 0.25 percent Methodist, 0.49 percent Muslim, and less than 0.1 percent Jewish. Approximately 4 percent of the population are members of other religions or have no specific religious belief.”

“Of the** 3.46 million Roman Catholics** in Ireland, 63 percent attend church once a week, according to the Catholic Bishops Conference.”

Source: state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2003/24414.htm

http://www.saintpatrickcentre.com/images/stpatrick2.jpg
 
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Mystophilus:
Most Protestants don’t care about the origins of Protestantism. Just as in the general population, few have any interest in history.
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I’m starting to think you are mistakenly posting in my thread responses to something you were discussing somewhere else. They are not making sense with the larger topic. The topic of this thread is that some Protestants have attempted to rewrite history by alleging that St. Patrick was not Catholic. Do you have something to share with us about St. Patrick?
 
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allhers:
Wow, another thing that you said that hit home!! My mother always use to say…“God works in mysterious ways, His wonders to behold”, (I have also asked her intercession lately,… after her death, her Pastor said to me, (right before her funeral Mass) “How does it feel to have your own personal Saint to pray to?” She was a living Saint too, I’ll tell you, she was so much like the Blessed Mother.
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This is a beautiful example of the Communion of Saints. I feel blessed to be a part of your story in this unexpected way. I’ll remember your mother in my prayers. She sounds much like my little Irish grandmother. She is a living Saint like that. May God continue to bless you!
 
Thank you Eden!!
I agree about the Communion of Saints.
Fr. Ambrose, thank you also for sharing that beautiful Icon of St. Patrick, I didn’t realize that you also shared our love for him.
I clicked on that site Father, wish I could read Gaelic.
 
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Eden:
What exactly is the relevance of the statistics of Protestants to Catholics in English-speaking countries with regards to St. Patrick?
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Nothing whatsoever, which is the reason for having linked it to the comment to which it was relevant rather than to the post which started the thread.
You’ve left out … Ireland
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My apologies for the oversight; I was not giving the issue the attention that it deserved.
 
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Eden:
You’ve left out the only relevant statistic for the thread which is Ireland:

“The country is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic. According to official government statistics collected during the 2002 census, the religious affiliation of the population is 88.4 percent Roman Catholic, 2.9 percent Church of Ireland (Anglican), 0.52 percent Presbyterian, 0.25 percent Methodist, 0.49 percent Muslim, and less than 0.1 percent Jewish. Approximately 4 percent of the population are members of other religions or have no specific religious belief.”
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You’ve left the Orthodox out of Ireland for some reason which is strange since they now rank as the fourth largest Christian group as well as being the fastest growing…

The 2002 Government census…

Roman Catholic: 3,400,000
Church of Ireland: 115,600
Presbyterian: 20,600
Orthodox: 12,000

The Orthodox are the fastest growing group because of immigration from Russia (and some conversion of the native population), and Ireland is now building Russian Orthodox churches. The estimated number of Orthodox in Ireland for 2005 (based on their percentage increase) is about 18,000. They are expected to displace the Presbyterians.
 
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Eden:
I found this site which has a good example of how the Protestant churches revise history to maintain the illusion of legitimacy. Apparently some Protestants question whether or not St. Patrick was “Catholic” despite the fact that Protestantism was not invented until 1100 years later:

EXCERPT: So what about that claim that St. Patrick was not Catholic? Well, the Catholic church clearly believes he was, but some Protestant commentators claim he was not. Among the reasons for these claims are statements from Patrick’s writings that indicate he practiced, and preached, a fairly simple version of Christianity in Ireland—seemingly not a fully Romanized version. There is also some doubt about his parents’ status in the Church, and a suggestion that only centuries after his death did Rome decide to absorb his story into official Church history. On the other hand, there is substantial evidence that Patrick was indeed ordained as a priest in the Roman church before beginning his missionary work. But the bottom line is that reliable written records from that period are few and far between. The true nature of St. Patrick’s religious convictions, like so much else about his life, will probably never be known with complete certainty.

itotd.com/index.alt?ArticleID=491
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Wow did you see how well researched and well documented that website was :rotfl: ok that was sarcasim.
I love how some will say anything with NOTHING to back it up with. :banghead:
 
Fr Ambrose:
You’ve left the Orthodox out of Ireland for some reason which is strange since they now rank as the fourth largest Christian group as well as being the fastest growing…

The 2002 Government census…

Roman Catholic: 3,400,000
Church of Ireland: 115,600
Presbyterian: 20,600
Orthodox: 12,000

The Orthodox are the fastest growing group because of immigration from Russia (and some conversion of the native population), and Ireland is now building Russian Orthodox churches. The estimated number of Orthodox in Ireland for 2005 (based on their percentage increase) is about 18,000. They are expected to displace the Presbyterians.
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Fr. Ambrose, of course he is also an Orthodox saint. We were one Church when St. Patrick braved his way back Ireland to evangelize. He was a Roman citizen and a member of the Western part of the Church (which was unified with the East so it was all one Church of course). Today, most Irish are “Latin Rite”. The small Eastern influence is heavily due to some immigration from Russia and other points East. I’ve seen beautiful icons. You can view my favorite here: comeandseeicons.com/udn01.htm

(The picture wouldn’t come up on the forum.)

I’m sure you agree with me, Fr. Ambrose, that St. Patrick was not Protestant. When Protestant commentators claim that St. Patrick was not Catholic, what they mean is that he was Protestant. To their spiritual detriment, Protestants are for the most part completely unaware as to the existence of the Eastern Orthodox. So, the real question is, was St. Patrick an early Protestant? The answer, of course, is “NO”.
 
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allhers:
Now Mystophilus, have you ever heard this? “Fear not, little flock, it has pleased the Father to give you the Kingdom.”
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“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Luke 12:32-4)

Going back to Patrick, I have been (unsuccessfully) searching for the Irish historian who was the author of this rather neat comment:
“There are two St.Patricks: a Catholic one and a Protestant one.” I think that it may have been Thomas Kinsella…?
 
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Eden:
Fr. Ambrose, of course he is also an Orthodox saint. We were one Church when St. Patrick braved his way back Ireland to evangelize. He was a Roman citizen and a member of the Western part of the Church (which was unified with the East so it was all one Church of course). Today, most Irish are “Latin Rite”. The small Eastern influence is heavily due to some immigration from Russia and other points East. I’ve seen beautiful icons. You can view my favorite here: comeandseeicons.com/udn01.htm

(The picture wouldn’t come up on the forum.)

I’m sure you agree with me, Fr. Ambrose, that St. Patrick was not Protestant. When Protestant commentators claim that St. Patrick was not Catholic, what they mean is that he was Protestant. To their spiritual detriment, Protestants are for the most part completely unaware as to the existence of the Eastern Orthodox. So, the real question is, was St. Patrick an early Protestant? The answer, of course, is “NO”.
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I am almost afraid to respond to this because people get their feeling hurt but I will anyway. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches are most certainly not the same Church and I know for a fact that Father Ambrose agrees with me on this. As a Catholic, I assent to the entirety of the Catholic faith. According to one of our past Holy Fathers Pope Pius XII who was pope during WWII, the Body of Christ is the Catholic Church by definition. Any other Church is not the Church and not the Body of Christ. That means, from a Catholic perspective, although there may be many Catholic things about the Orthodox churches they are not members of the Church and therefore not the body of Christ. Since the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches are sepearated from eachother, to say that both are the Church would be to say that the Church is divided. But that is impossible because the nicean creed states that the church is “One”. So either the Catholic Church is the Church or the Orthodox churches are. It can’t be both. I believe that it is the Catholic Church. However, that does not mean that their are not good Orthodox Christian or that their are no Orhtodox saints. It just means we are not the same Church.
 
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Eden:
You’ve left out the only relevant statistic for the thread which is Ireland:
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Well he is protestant, their whole religion is based on leaving things out that don’t validate their beliefs.
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Mystophilus:
Such an action would be entirely reasonable considering that the differences between the major Protestant denominations are slight enough to allow individuals to freely and easily pass between them
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Could you imangine this happening during a survey?
Survey taker: are you christian?
anglican: Yes, i’m a anglican.
Survey taker: O i already have baptist penciled in, will that do?
anglican: O ok, that’s close enough.

No i bet you can’t. shian put the question to you that if you put any individual protestant group togther then the catholics aren’t the minority. Don’t twist facts or put togther disjointed stats. because you know that matched against any individual christian faith there are more catholics than “prot’s”.
even in Australia during our last offical census. For the first time in Australian history, Catholics constitute numerically the largest denomination in Australia. There are somewhat more than 4 million of them, or 26% of the entire Australian population, while the Anglicans, who were 39% of the population in 1947 are now down to 24%. What boost does this do to my faith knowing that catholics are now the largest individual denom in australia? Absolutly nothing. Because i follow jesus not because others do it, but because it feels right to me.
and as far as this quote goes
There are two St.Patricks: a Catholic one and a Protestant one." I think that it may have been Thomas Kinsella…?
He is right in a way , there are two st.pats. the one which history tells us excisted, and another who certain faiths like too tell us to add a bit of credibility to their man made religion.
 
The fruit of St. Patrick’s work is described in the book How the Irish Saved Civilization (can’t remember the author). If St. Patrick isn’t Catholic then I’m not. I took Patrick as my confirmation name and named one of my sons after him.
 
How the Irish Saved Civilization was written by Thomas Cahill. 👍
If St. Patrick isn’t Catholic then I’m not.
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If St. Patrick isn’t Catholic than Ireland isn’t either! :eek: How can Protestants consider St. Patrick’s conversion of the island a success if Patrick was Protestant and Ireland is 88% Catholic? :hmmm: St. Patrick was hardly a successful Protestant missionary.
 
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