St. Patrick's Day

[Lujack]

St. Patrick’s Day celebrations are more of an American phenomenon. Obviously, the Irish celebrate the feast day of their saint, but the Americans take it to another level.

I don’t know why, but a lot of Americans seem to have a deep emotional connection with Ireland. When I went to New York, I met a lot of people who called themselves Irish-American, even though they had never been to Ireland.

I have found that Americans value their heritage and family history far more than Europeans. In Europe, if you are born in Ireland you call yourself Irish. If you are born in England you call yourself English. I doesn’t matter where your ancestors lived. I never understand why some Americans call themselves Irish-American, or Italian-American, or African-American. Why can’t they be just “Americans?”

Today, I think its mostly nostalgia and family. Part of it, for example, is that an Irish-American person born in the 1940’s probably grew up and lived in a neighborhood where he was surrounded by mostly other Irish-Americans. You can’t call it Irish culture because there’s nothing distinctly Irish (as in Ireland itself) about it, but it was distinct from not being Irish-American, just like being a Manhattanite is distinct from living in Pocatello, Idaho, or how living at the Jersey Shore is different from owning a ranch in Montana. It mattered to them. They lived life in a distinct way.

Similarly, the Italian-Americans had that same experience. My father grew up during the very last generation of an all-Italian neighborhood, and can remember how things were during that time (now, interestingly, its an all-Egyptian neighborhood. Maybe fifty years from now, people will remember their Egyptian neighborhood with nostalgia as they live in their own suburban houses). They did things a certain way, they made certain foods, and they had certain traditions.

In a way, Catholicism reinforces it; this was the age of the “Catholic Ghetto”, and almost everybody in those neighborhoods went to Catholic schools. So [Irish/Italian/Polish]-American heritage is a way to hold onto those days as well.

 

[Onegin]

Given the chance, I bet I would convert you. Not to brag or anything. It’s just the truth.

My great grandfather was the chief of police in Brooklyn. My uncle John was a fireman, so they marched.

I don’t go to the NYC parade. Too busy with the corned beef. The steam from all the pots of boiling water will be dripping off the kitchen widows by like about 12:30, so I’ll catch the parade on the tv.

Now you’ve got me curious about this recipe.

The parade was pretty amazing! I can’t even remember all of it, but the crowds were massive. Its fun to hear how many people have a St. Patrick’s Day tradition.

St. Patrick’s Day celebrations are more of an American phenomenon. Obviously, the Irish celebrate the feast day of their saint, but the Americans take it to another level.

I don’t know why, but a lot of Americans seem to have a deep emotional connection with Ireland. When I went to New York, I met a lot of people who called themselves Irish-American, even though they had never been to Ireland.

This does seem to be kind of true. On my visit, I had to laugh because there was almost an unspoken rule that on St. Patrick’s Day you had to stay away from the “English” pubs and only patronise the “Irish” ones. It seems like the American sentiment construes more of an enmity between England and Ireland? Maybe this was just due to the holiday?

Also, people we met kept asking whether I was Irish! Must be the red hair. Again, I don’t know if that is a myth. Loads of Scots have red hair too. I wasn’t aware that was an Irish trait.

I’ve never been to Ireland on St. Patrick’s Day so perhaps (name removed by moderator) can tell us what it is like but here in England it isn’t really that widely celebrated. Or at least not as enthusiastically.

 

[tomarin]

Why, you ungrateful wretch.

 

[tomarin]

This does seem to be kind of true. On my visit, I had to laugh because there was almost an unspoken rule that on St. Patrick’s Day you had to stay away from the “English” pubs and only patronise the “Irish” ones. It seems like the American sentiment construes more of an enmity between England and Ireland? Maybe this was just due to the holiday?

Yes, on St. Pats you must only patronise erzatz Irish pubs and avoid erzatz English ones. Oh, the humanity…

Also, people we met kept asking whether I was Irish! Must be the red hair. Again, I don’t know if that is a myth. Loads of Scots have red hair too. I wasn’t aware that was an Irish trait.

I’ve always thought the Irish and English looked alike, or at least both nationalities look good in an Aran sweater. Wasn’t there a study done recently that found there to be no genetic difference in the two populations? I’ve also heard that in England there’s an old wives tale that red-haired people are of ancient British (i.e. Welsh) stock.

 

[hawkeye]

Yes which would kick to touch the protestantism idea.

 

[bkovacs]

I don’t think to many Irish Catholics from Ireland are to happy with the Catholic Church this St. Patrick’s day. Considering all the sexual abuse cases coming out of Ireland. I’m also sure that St.Patrick is not to happy with the cover-up as well. It is probably being celebrated in Ireland more as a secular day this year than a feast day. Most likely many Irish are going to the Pubs this day than to Church. Just being a little realistic.

 

[da_nolo]

My Irish ancestors came later than that.

no, the Irish were here before the civil war…it was at this time that the slave was becoming increasingly costly to own and Irish immigrants were hired to work at the docks and other places at stupidly low pay rates. they were seen as less than human themselves actually and put to work in death traps.

 

[barb_finnegan]

When I prayed my Rosary today, I offered each decade in honor of Our Lady of Knock, St. Patrick, St. Brigid of Kildare, St. Kevin of Glendalough and St. Oliver Plunkett.

It’s also the 93rd anniversary of the birth of my late father, who was ONE HUNDRED PERCENT IRISH-AMERICAN! :shamrock2: My ‘other half’ is German-my mother was born there and emigrated to the US in the 1920s.

I pray that the prayers of all the Saints and holy ones of Ireland will bring Ireland back to the Faith that was taught by St. Patrick. The so-called ‘Celtic Tiger’ was a chimera, a worldly fantasy that vanished into thin air. Material ‘prosperity’ does not satisfy man’s hunger for the Infinite.

I also pray for the healing of the Church in Ireland, battered as it has been by the clerical sex abuse crisis. May the pastoral letter that the Holy Father is sending to the Irish be the beginning of that healing process, and strengthen the Church to continue the mission of St. Patrick.

 

[T_Hope]

I cannot believe some of the things I am reading in this thread. Was St Patrick a “Real Person” Being of Irish Heritage myself - those are fighting words. (Just kidding) But yes - the Catholic Church has honored St Patrick as not only a real person but a MAJOR SAINT. He converted the entire country of Ireland from the paganism of the Druids. His famous three leafed clover which is one leaf and yet three leafs to explain the Dogma of the Trinity was not made up. St Patrick was a slave captured in Scotland and brought to Ireland and forced to tend Sheep as a boy all alone in cold windswept places. He prayed that GOD deliver him And He was delivered and became a Priest and then a Bishop and was sent beck to Ireland of all places by the Pope himself. He used to do penances by standing in cold streams up to his chest while offereing prayer to Almighty GOD and to the Blessed Virgin and the Saints. He openly defied the authority of the Druids. And the entire Country was converted as a result of this famous and heroic and Great Saint.

Ireland is known as a Priest Factory (Although not as much today) Irish Priests were very numerous throughout the world.

And BTW Corned Beef and Cabbage is an American Invention by Irish immigrants to the US in New England. But we make it every year anyway.

Pax

I read this morning about St. Patrick’s captivity beginning around his 16th year, and that it was during this captivity that his conversion had taken place.

Hope

 

[MikeDunphy]

Onegin;6403080:

Thirdly, corned beef and cabbage tastes awful.

Heresy!

De gustibus non est disputandum.

The corned beef and cabbage my brothers and I were served on St. Patrick’s Day in years past did serve to accentuate the penitential nature of the season.

No disrespect intended to you, the corned beef, or my late, sainted mother who boiled the stuff to death.

 

[O_Duirnin]

De gustibus non est disputandum.

The corned beef and cabbage my brothers and I were served on St. Patrick’s Day in years past did serve to accentuate the penitential nature of the season.

No disrespect intended to you, the corned beef, or my late, sainted mother who boiled the stuff to death.

A friend of mines was in West Belfast during the Falklands War, and visited a cafe which proudly advertised ‘Irish Cabbage and Argentinian Corned Beef’, with a picture of crossed Irish and Argentinian flags.

 

[daeve]

First off, St. Patrick was most definitely real!

Secondly, it seems that my American friends celebrate St. Patrick’s day more than anyone I know. It’s a huge event there. But again, I think that’s through the efforts of the breweries rather than any Catholic sentiment. Also, most say they are of Irish descent, though probably a few generations removed, I think.

Thirdly, corned beef and cabbage tastes awful.

The corned beef I made on Sunday was totally delicious, and succulent and just about magnificent! The cabbage wasn’t very nice, but the potatoes and carrots were swell too. I’m still thinking about it three days later! Come to my house and I’ll fix you a corned beef to remember!

 

[daeve]

Thanks! I think I was confused because the oriental supermarket near me doesn’t carry fresh produce, so I was just searching at the local supermarket and greengrocer, neither of whom had heard of a napa cabbage.

I can get it in just about any store here. It’s usually in the cabbage neighborhood, right next to the bok choy. Napa isn’t round, but kind of oblong although some can be pretty fat. You use it in Chinese cooking a lot. Regular cabbage works fine. My downstairs neighbors in Queens were Korean, and they made kimchi on their patio every year. They didn’t have any grass to bury it, so they put the crocks in big planters. The whole family would make it together. The men would be chopping up cases of cabbage, each using a cleaver in each hand. The woman did the middle parts, and then the men put it in the planters. It was a little spicy for my tastes, but my ex-husband and little boys loved the stuff. They just used regular old cabbage, and you could get any kind of vegetable you could think of in Queens, even fresh peas! I’d love to get my hands on some of those babies!

 

[tomarin]

no, the Irish were here before the civil war…it was at this time that the slave was becoming increasingly costly to own and Irish immigrants were hired to work at the docks and other places at stupidly low pay rates. they were seen as less than human themselves actually and put to work in death traps.

I know that there were Irish in America before the Civil War; what I meant by my ancestors was my actual family members, who immigrated sometime in the 1880’s, most likely. Sorry for any misunderstanding my imprecise language caused.

Does anyone know during which decade of the 19th century the Potato Famine happened? I think that certainly spurred emigration from Ireland to elsewhere. (Funny thing is, in my family when I was a child my parents talked about it as if it had just happened a short while ago, and the memory and a sense of grievance were still fresh.)

 

[Onegin]

The corned beef I made on Sunday was totally delicious, and succulent and just about magnificent! The cabbage wasn’t very nice, but the potatoes and carrots were swell too. I’m still thinking about it three days later! Come to my house and I’ll fix you a corned beef to remember!

I’ve had corned beef that I have remembered in the awful, penitential sense so I’m hoping you are referring only to fond memories!

And, to be completely truthful, I’ve never actually had corned beef and cabbage served together, just separately. However, as I’ve always hated them separately, I can’t imagine what benefit can be realized from combining them.

I can get it in just about any store here. It’s usually in the cabbage neighborhood, right next to the bok choy. Napa isn’t round, but kind of oblong although some can be pretty fat. You use it in Chinese cooking a lot. Regular cabbage works fine. My downstairs neighbors in Queens were Korean, and they made kimchi on their patio every year. They didn’t have any grass to bury it, so they put the crocks in big planters. The whole family would make it together. The men would be chopping up cases of cabbage, each using a cleaver in each hand. The woman did the middle parts, and then the men put it in the planters. It was a little spicy for my tastes, but my ex-husband and little boys loved the stuff. They just used regular old cabbage, and you could get any kind of vegetable you could think of in Queens, even fresh peas! I’d love to get my hands on some of those babies!

From my visits to YouTube to research kimchi making, I’ve got the basic idea of what a napa cabbage looks like but the only challenge that remains is actually finding one! I’ve checked with Tesco, Sainsbury’s, the Co-op without any success. Nothing like perseverance, though, even if the subject matter involves an otherwise loathsome vegetable.

That’s an interesting story about your neighbors and a creative way to bury the kimchi! The only way I’ve heard of is the old-fashioned garden method.

 

[twinc]

A Happy St. Patrick’s day to all on Wednesday! There will be a Tridentine Solemn High Mass for the feast of St. Patrick the diocesan patron at Holy Innocents Church at 6PM

When does one drop the Irish and become American and start honouring the patron saint of America in precedence and preference to the patron saint of Ireland - btw 17th March is St.Joseph’s feast day and I think he should be honoured in the rest of the world on this day even if not in Ireland - twinc

 

[twinc]

Is it a settled fact that St. Patrick was a historical person?

St.Joseph certainly was and yet he is totally forgotten and unmentioned on his 17th March feast day - this is scandalous and totally unacceptable - twinc

 

[Havard]

St.Joseph certainly was and yet he is totally forgotten and unmentioned on his 17th March feast day - this is scandalous and totally unacceptable - twinc

It’s March 19th…

 

[twinc]

Yes which would kick to touch the protestantism idea.

St.Joseph on his feast day of March 17th is well remembered and honoured by the Orthodox Church - twinc

 

[twinc]

It’s March 19th…

in spite of the remarks it is 17th March as stated - twinc