St. Peter was in Rome

[Mannyfit75]

this thread is for our Protestant friend favoritemartin, aka Simon,

He does not believe that Peter was not in Rome at all and we could not provide reference dating before 198 A.D regarding Peter’s passing his authority to the next Pope, Titus, it was Linus.

This forum is to discuss (not debate) the issue.

I’ll cite the following info from TCA Apologetic Website.

In Saint John's Gospel we find a passage in which Christ prophesied Peter's death:

    "When you are old, then you will stretch out your hands and another will bind you and take you where you do not want to go." [John 21, 18-19.]

The phrase "to stretch out one's hands" is found in literature of the time referring to crucifixion. Certainly the Christian church acknowledged Peter as a martyr and founder of the church in Rome [of along with Paul] from as early as the end of the first century AD. And another tradition which we can trace back to the third century AD added the detail that Peter asked his persecutors to turn his cross upside down, because he was unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus. These literary fragments may not to some seem impressive, but it must be borne in mind that no challenge was ever mounted to the tradition of Peter's residence and martyrdom in Rome prior to 1324.

    "Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him. " [Clement of Rome, The First Epistle of Clement,5(c.A.D. 96),in ANF,I:6]

    "But I can show the trophies of the apostles. For if you will go to the Vatican or to the Ostian way, you will find the trophies of those who laid the foundations of this church."
    [Gaius, fragment in Eusebius' Church History,2:25(A.D. 198),in NPNF2,I:129-130]

    "Since, moreover, you are close upon Italy, you have Rome, from which there comes even into our own hands the very authority (of Apostles themselves). How happy is its church, on which Apostles poured forth all their doctrine along with their blood! where Peter endures a passion like his Lord’s!" [Tertullian, [A.D. 212] The Prescription Against Heretics]

    " At Rome Nero was the first who stained with blood the rising faith. Then is Peter girt by another, when he is made fast to the cross. [Tertullian, Scorpiace,15:3(A.D. 212),in ANF,III:648.]

    "[W]hat utterance also the Romans give, so very near (to the apostles), to whom Peter and Paul conjointly bequeathed the gospel even sealed with their own blood." [Tertullian, Against Marcion,4:5(inter A.D. 207-212),in ANF,III:350]

    "Peter...at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer this way." [Origen, Third Commentary on Genesis, (A.D. 232) fragment in Eusebius 3:1:1,in NPNF2,X:132]

    "Thus Peter, the first of the Apostles, having been often apprehended, and thrown into prison, and treated with ignominy, was last of all crucified at Rome." [Peter of Alexandria, The Canonical Epistle, Canon 9(A.D. 306),in ANF,VI:273]

    "It is, therefore, recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero." [Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, II:25:1 (A.D. 325)]

    "I think it my duty to consult the chair of Peter, and to turn to a church whose faith has been praised by Paul...My words are spoken to the successor of the fisherman, to the disciple of the cross." [Jerome, To Pope Damasus, Epistle 15 (A.D. 377),in NPNF2,VI:18]

catholicapologetics.net/0002catholic.htm#2

 

[Mannyfit75]

The archeological proof of the existence of St. Peters tomb under St. Peters basilica in Rome.

catholicapologetics.net/apolo_74.htm

the article is on the website. I won’t copy and paste the message.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Your wrong I did not say that I didn’t believe Peter was in Rome, I said many theologians and church historians wont committ one way or the other… Why would I want to argue this.

I said You’ll not find an ECF prior to Ireneaus 189ish that’ll provide any facts to prove…
Universal authority
Peter alone passed the keys to a bishop…
so if you wish to continue on this basis we can… May I state my case first?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Your wrong I did not say that I didn’t believe Peter was in Rome, I said many theologians and church historians wont committ one way or the other… Why would I want to argue this.

I said You’ll not find an ECF prior to Ireneaus 189ish that’ll provide any facts to prove…
Universal authority
Peter alone passed the keys to a bishop…
so if you wish to continue on this basis we can… May I state my case first?

If you go back to the other thread you made. Other Catholic Apologists pointed out to you from Scripture itself that pointed that Peter passed his authority.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Your wrong I did not say that I didn’t believe Peter was in Rome, I said many theologians and church historians wont committ one way or the other… Why would I want to argue this.

I said You’ll not find an ECF prior to Ireneaus 189ish that’ll provide any facts to prove…
Universal authority
Peter alone passed the keys to a bishop…
so if you wish to continue on this basis we can… May I state my case first?

The Apostolic Church Elder Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp (Born cir. A.D. 130) and later Bishop of Smyrna, also confirms Linus’ appointment. He wrote: “After the Holy Apostles founded and set the Church in order (in Rome) they gave over the exercise of the episcopal office to Linus. The same Linus is mentioned by St. Paul in his Epistle to Timothy [II Tim 4:21]. His successor was Anacletus.” (Adv. haereses, III, iii, 3). Also, “The apostles, having founded and built up the Church at Rome, committed the ministry of its supervision to Linus. This is the Linus mentioned by Paul in his Epistle to Timothy.” (Irenaei Opera Lib. III. C.I.)

 

[myfavoritmartin]

The Apostolic Church Elder Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp (Born cir. A.D. 130) and later Bishop of Smyrna, also confirms Linus’ appointment. He wrote: “After the Holy Apostles founded and set the Church in order (in Rome) they gave over the exercise of the episcopal office to Linus. The same Linus is mentioned by St. Paul in his Epistle to Timothy [II Tim 4:21]. His successor was Anacletus.” (Adv. haereses, III, iii, 3). Also, “The apostles, having founded and built up the Church at Rome, committed the ministry of its supervision to Linus. This is the Linus mentioned by Paul in his Epistle to Timothy.” (Irenaei Opera Lib. III. C.I.)

My bolds make my case.
So do we agree, I am not saying Peter was never in rome?

 

[Mannyfit75]

My bolds make my case.
So do we agree, I am not saying Peter was never in rome?

Yes, we agree. We can close this out unless someone has issues with it.