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Jennifer_G
Guest
Can anyone tell me about the St. Teresa Association of Camelites?
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Ocarm
Guest
Do you mean the Order of Discalced Carmelites, sometimes referred to as ‘Teresian’ Carmelites, or Carmelites of the Teresian Reform?
Or perhaps the St Teresa Association of Discalced Monasteries:
carmelnuns.com/Association/AboutTheAssociation.html
Or maybe something else altogether?
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Jennifer_G
Guest
That’s the one I’m asking about.Or perhaps the St Teresa Association of Discalced Monasteries:
carmelnuns.com/Association/AboutTheAssociation.html
Or maybe something else altogether?
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Augustine
Guest
These are the convents which chose their constitutions in 1990 and who are under direct jurisdiction of the pope, rather than of the friars, as is the case of those which follow the constitutions of 1991.
HTH
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Jennifer_G
Guest
So, what does that mean? (I have no idea what it means by being under the jurisdiction of the pope vs the friars and what the constitutions say).These are the convents which chose their constitutions in 1990 and who are under direct jurisdiction of the pope, rather than of the friars, as is the case of those which follow the constitutions of 1991.
HTH
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Ocarm
Guest
I hope I’m not just telling you what you already know, but:
Male Orders of religious (in this context referred to as First Orders) often founded Second Orders for female religious (usually cloistered) and later on, Third Orders for lay members.
The constitutions of the Second and Third Orders typically placed them under direct authority of the First Order, locally answerable to the head of the First Order province and internationally under the jurisdiction of the general of the First Order.
Religious orders are themselves directly responsible to the Pope (and not to the local bishop, except in diocesan matters).
The answer given by Augustine above indicates that the Association of St Teresa changed their constitutions to make them directly answerable to the Pope rather than the Prior General of the Order of Discalced Carmelites.
I’m unclear why this happened, although the web page cited above implies that this was part of the process of religious orders and congregations being advised at Vatican II to seek again the original charisms of their founders. Perhaps the Carmelite nuns felt that this was not best achieved by remaining under the jurisdiction of the Discalced friars, and perhaps the friars facilitated the change? Or perhaps - well, I’ll leave that to someone who actually knows the answer to the question.
Hope this helps at least a little.
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daughterofmary
Guest
All of those Carmels in the St. Teresa Association are of the 1991 Constitutions, which means they are all under the jurisdiction of the friars.These are the convents which chose their constitutions in 1990 and who are under direct jurisdiction of the pope, rather than of the friars, as is the case of those which follow the constitutions of 1991.
There is no assocation with just 1990s in it. There is an international one, Los Palomarcitos de la Virgen, but the Carmels therein have been given special permission to be under the friars while still following the 1990 Constitution.
The St. Josephs Association is the only association which has Carmels in it that follow the 1990, and following that, are under the jurisdiction of the Holy Father. There are also 1991s in that assocation as well, which from my understanding, usually have a more traditional interpretation of the Rule and 1991 Constitutions.
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daughterofmary
Guest
Carmels in the St. Teresa Assocation are actually under the friars and follow the 1991 Constitution, however to better understand the constitutions and assocations and their differences it might be of interest to you to read this.
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Jennifer_G
Guest
Wow! That was quite informative! So, I guess to sum it up, the ones that follow the 1990 constitution are more likely to be traditional than the 1991 constitution. I wonder if Terre Haute and Port Tobacco Carmels (1991) are traditional (are they?). I do see that they wear habits… The closest Carmelite monastary to me (I used to ride past - nearby, rather - it when I had a job in the area), Baltimore Carmel, seems more liberal though.
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daughterofmary
Guest
Yeah, they do tend to be more traditional…Wow! That was quite informative! So, I guess to sum it up, the ones that follow the 1990 constitution are more likely to be traditional than the 1991 constitution. I wonder if Terre Haute and Port Tobacco Carmels (1991) are traditional (are they?). I do see that they wear habits… The closest Carmelite monastary to me (I used to ride past - nearby, rather - it when I had a job in the area), Baltimore Carmel, seems more liberal though.
Pope John Paul II validated both the 1990 and 1991 Constitution and said, “Both texts, equally approved by the Church, are a faithful interpretation of the Teresian Carmelite charism."
I guess it is all a matter of where God is calling you.
As concerns the habits… you’ll find a good deal of 1991 Carmels still wear the habit (or some modified form of it), whether one would consider them of a more traditional way of life or not. Baltimore is part of the Carmelite Communities Associated, which are of a extremely more “progressive” mind.
I don’t have any experience with Terre Haute or Port Tobacco, but I have heard good things about both. I’ve heard especially a good deal about Terre Haute. Margaret Clare, author of the original on the link I posted, wrote elsewhere that she had been told by Des Plaines (1990 Carmel and “a daughter foundation” of Terre Haute) that they were close to Terre Haute and Terre Haute was a very good Carmel.
Port Tobacco has individual hermitages which is very different and nice.
There are some women over on www.phatmass.com who have had correspondence and visited each and spoke some about it. You might want to get an account there and search “Terre Haute” and “Port Tobacco” in the search bar. Numerous threads will come up where both are mentioned.
This is a nice little page to visit too with mostly pictures of 1990 Carmels. There are some more traditional 1991s amongst them.
picasaweb.google.com/ocdnuns
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daughterofmary
Guest
Morristown (NJ) and Flemington (NJ) would both only be three hours away from you.… The closest Carmelite monastary to me (I used to ride past - nearby, rather - it when I had a job in the area), Baltimore Carmel, seems more liberal though.
Brooklyn (NY) would only be about three and a half hours from you.
Even Buffalo (NY) would be half the travel of Terre Haute.
All of the above are 1990. It is neat that you are so close driving distance (just about three hours) from three really great 1990 Carmels.
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CarmeliteGirl25
Guest
I looked at a website for the CCA, and was surprised to see Boston on it! They all wear habits from what I saw in the pictures. Does anyone have any experience with them? I was really interested in contacting them, and I sent an email a few days ago.
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daughterofmary
Guest
I don’t know anything about them.I looked at a website for the CCA, and was surprised to see Boston on it! They all wear habits from what I saw in the pictures. Does anyone have any experience with them? I was really interested in contacting them, and I sent an email a few days ago.
What a beautiful monastery though! Beautiful stain-glass.
The assocation is generally not of a traditional mind… but each Carmel is unique…
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CarmeliteGirl25
Guest
Their monastery reminds me of St. Therese’s monastery very much. I love the architecture. They have a very informative website, too.I don’t know anything about them.
What a beautiful monastery though! Beautiful stain-glass.
The assocation is generally not of a traditional mind… but each Carmel is unique…
I guess I’ll wait to hear back from them.
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ForeverHis8827
Guest
There is also the St. Joseph Association of Discalced Carmelite Nuns.
"After the close of the Second Vatican Council, the St. Joseph Association was inaugurated by four American Carmels in an effort to prosper the authentic renewal decreed by the Council for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns of the Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mt. Carmel and to protect its charism and traditions.
Currently, the twelve member Carmels of the association witness to a common endeavor to be daughters of the Church and of the great Carmelite reformer, St. Teresa of Jesus, (Avila, Spain 1515-1582).
The practice of the evangelical counsels lived within strict papal enclosure, the apostolate of prayer and contemplation, and the traditional austerity of the Order are foundation stones upon which the nuns set out to meet their Bridegroom, who leads them into the desert and up the holy Mount of Carmel."
Here is the website if your interested: carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/
"After the close of the Second Vatican Council, the St. Joseph Association was inaugurated by four American Carmels in an effort to prosper the authentic renewal decreed by the Council for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns of the Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mt. Carmel and to protect its charism and traditions.
Currently, the twelve member Carmels of the association witness to a common endeavor to be daughters of the Church and of the great Carmelite reformer, St. Teresa of Jesus, (Avila, Spain 1515-1582).
The practice of the evangelical counsels lived within strict papal enclosure, the apostolate of prayer and contemplation, and the traditional austerity of the Order are foundation stones upon which the nuns set out to meet their Bridegroom, who leads them into the desert and up the holy Mount of Carmel."
Here is the website if your interested: carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/
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