St Teresa of Avila and...pleasure in pain?

[roseproject]

So, I’m a bit puzzled with this account of St. Teresa of Avila’s ecstasy (taken from her own biography)…

“I saw in his hand (referring to an angel which appeared to her) a long spear of gold, and at the iron’s point there seemed to be a little fire. He appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying.”

I’m trying to understand the implications of what is being said here. The saints would agree that there is a deep, profound joy involved in going through hardships, patiently enduring sufferings, out of obedience and love of God, Who at times chooses not to remove sufferings in order to allow us opportunities to grow in holiness. Yet, (and this is certainly my experience) that I don’t, as a result, enjoy the suffering itself and the sensations they cause. That would be along the lines of sadism. At least in the way she writes of this experience, it seems to me that she pleasured in the sensation of the pain itself. Saying that the pain of her entrails falling out was “sweet” reads a bit strange to the sensibilities of this age. Any thoughts?

Pax Christi

 

[Thomh]

First of all, we have to insist that she is talking about spiritual, and not physical, pain. I think what she’s trying to say is that she understands that every pain she receives comes from God Himself, because He loves her and wants her to be holy. In that sense, she enjoys the pain because it is a proof of God’s deep love for her and a sign that she will be greatly rewarded at the end of her earthly life. We often say that God can make good out of bad.
Spiritual pain from God is not just suffering, as when a mother gives birth after, sometimes, hours of labor. She already feels a fraction of the joys of heaven to come that are infinite and she’s overwhelmed with pleasure.
That would be my understanding of this passage.

 

[Mary888]

Saying that the pain of her entrails falling out was “sweet” reads a bit strange to the sensibilities of this age.

Maybe we have to rise above the relative perceptions of this time, or her time, to be able to understand what she says. God is above time yet present in it.
If you read the list of joys as presented by our Lord there is nothing wrong with what St. Theresa says. Except her pain is concentrated into one personal revelation while what most people are required to accept is daily small suffering and stress and stay patient and not complain.
I get hope from her book that one moment of true repentence and accepting of suffering may be acceptable to God for those of us who can’t master patience well.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This experience is not about ordinary hardship or enjoyment of pain. St. Teresa of Avila had a mystic experience called a transverberation of the heart. It mystically causes a great love of God along with a purification. I would put it in a similar category to the stigmata which people also get mystically and which are also painful.

Here’s a list of saints and holy people besides Teresa who reportedly received a transverberation:

Litany of Saints who have received the Transverberation of the heart

Mystics of the Church website

www.mysticsofthechurch.com

Mystical experiences like this are out of the ordinary and the people who have them have already reached a great level of love for God. You are best off accepting the experience for what it is, a mystical experience of love for God that is accompanied by some physical pain, and not trying to understand it in human terms. The vast majority of us are never going to experience nor understand a transverberation so it’s not something we have to worry about understanding for our spiritual lives. If we were on the spiritual level of St Teresa then we’d understand it.

 

[roseproject]

Thank you for the info

 

[Dorothy]

Thank you for posting the explanation. As I began to read this thread I was pondering how to reply, and then I came across your message.

 

[Bluebright]

I know you have had this explained to you, I just wanted to say that it is certainly not sadism or along those lines. The enjoyment of physical/spiritual suffering is out of pure love. Something that all of us can be capable of with God’s help if we choose it. God gives us all the grace of contemplation, should we strive for it, with his help. Of course few manage it but this is not because it isnt offered.
It can be likened to tolerance of pain the we humans endure for those we love, like parents endure pain (emotional perhaps physical) at the hands of their children out of love. This is an example of imperfect us showing our imperfect love, when one party is perfect (God) then the expression is markedly different, especially as God’s power is manifest in us too.