St. Teresa of Avila-"God dwells in our souls" THE PRAYER OF RECOLLECTION

[DBT]

Teresa9:

Dear DBT

Great idea!!! Excellent, please start the thread DBT!!

Teresa

. . .ugh . . . guess you didn’t take the bait

I’ll drop my line in the big pond one more time. Hint Hint

 

[Teresa9]

DBT:

. . .ugh . . . guess you didn’t take the bait

I’ll drop my line in the big pond one more time. Hint Hint

Dear DBT

I see you started the thread! Credit due where credit should be due, it was your idea and a fine one it is!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Joysong]

Teresa9:

I think after taking advice on your post from another member of the forums and after re-reading it several times, what maybe is not clear in your post is this: We should be open to contemplative prayer and pray in the spirit of this, but that contemplative prayer is a gift from God that cannot be achieved by human striving nor desire. We may pre-dispose ourselves to the possibility of this gift by certain pious practice in prayer which St Teresa descibes in the Interior castle, but that contemplative prayer is not achieveable by ourselves.

As a newbie to the Order, but not it’s charisms I would very much like to be able to discuss things with you if you have the time in future after the holidays and it would also be a wonderful thing to be able to share fellowship with other Third Order Carmelites.

Dear Teresa,

Thanks so much for your wishes - I did have a beautiful Thanksgiving, and I hope yours was wonderful also.

May I explain the term “charism” as we use it in Carmel. Each order is noted for a particular charism in which the Holy Spirit leads the members. When you study the Carmelite tradition, you will see that the main “charism” is prayer. I suppose this is confusing to you because we have been talking about extraordinary charisms in the charismatic threads. So much for finding a common terminology, huh? The charism for Franciscans would be poverty, and for Dominicans it would be preaching, etc.

This is different from charisms of healing, miracles, prophecy, and other extraordinary ones that the Holy Spirit also bestows on individuals. When we speak about religious orders, the term usually is applied to the spiritual leaning of the entire order of members.

Before I lose this data and have to begin again, I will continue on a new post.

Carole

 

[Joysong]

Hello, again -

I cannot use Notepad here on the network and I have lost an entire post a few times, so I’m leary of staying too long. I hope this does not cause a problem with continuity.

Back to more terminology. You are so right about contemplation being a pure gift from God, Teresa — if you mean the form of contemplation that is called “infused” contemplation. Yes, it is true that only God can infuse a gift of His presence within a soul.

However, we can develop a form of natural contemplation. The person of deep continual prayer over many years becomes very habitually attentive to God and turns its glance frequently inward to gaze upon Him, mostly without words, although there may be a brief ejaculation just as simple as “Jesus, I love you.” When you read “The Spiritual Life” and other classical works, these authors describe it as the prayer of simplicity which I’ll explain later.

This is what Brother Lawrence spoke of in his treatise about practicing the presence of God (“acquired” contemplation), and he highly recommended it for those who are able to practice it. Perhaps it depends upon one’s state in life as to whether their duties are so absorbing that this would be impossible. Very often while the person is just quietly focusing on God, which is natural, or acquired contemplation, He may visit the soul and take it deeper into the gifted form we call infused contemplation.

St. Teresa referred to the growth in prayer as peeling an orange. As we meditate for many years and grow closer to God, we come to know and love Him more and more. We take off more of the rind, so to speak. What happens when the rind is all removed? The soul just naturally loves Him without all of the work of peeling the rind - the process of discovery. She advises, as does St. John, that once we have come to this stage of prayer development, it becomes difficult to meditate, for the work has already been done.

It is a critical juncture that St. John gives much teaching on, due to the difficulty of being unable to mediate any longer. The person’s prayer can then be called “prayer of simplicity” because it is so short, but pierces the heavens with its potency, due to the growth in love that has developed in the heart. The person’s prayer becomes contemplative, in the sense of continual awareness of God’s presence. However, he/she is not always receiving the infused gift as you are no doubt referring to. That happens rarely as you said.

More later …

 

[Joysong]

Continuing . . .

When God begins to grant these infusions of prayer (contemplation) to the soul, He begins with the lower forms and increases them as the soul becomes more able to receive the divine touches. We have to be made ready according to our spiritual growth. One just doesn’t begin with the advanced form called ecstacy. God gradually envelops more and more of the faculties as the person advances.

St. Teresa gave us some terminology to refer to her descriptions of infused prayer and help us to understand what is indescribable and difficult to put into language. The progressions, in her words, are: infused recollection, quiet, union, ecstacy, flight of the spirit. These are the sweet and delightful forms.

She used these other terms to describe the dark and arid forms: a severe distress, a pain full of delight, a flaming dart.

Both the sweet and arid infusions are forms of contemplation, because in each manifestation, the soul receives them without being able either to resist them or bring them about, no matter how much it may desire to do so. In each, the soul is visited by God and the person is deeply, lovingly, attentive to Him as long as it lasts - even in the arid type. The latter is more descriptive of the purification that takes place in the Dark Night of the Soul.

I realize this is difficult to describe fully in just a few posts here. I hope it sheds a little more light and will give us a basis to communicate with somewhat clearer understanding. I am so delighted to meet another sister in Carmel, and I trust we will have much to share together.

God’s peace and joy,
Carole

 

[Leo44]

Joysong:

Continuing . . .

When God begins to grant these infusions of prayer (contemplation) to the soul, He begins with the lower forms and increases them as the soul becomes more able to receive the divine touches. We have to be made ready according to our spiritual growth. One just doesn’t begin with the advanced form called ecstacy. God gradually envelops more and more of the faculties as the person advances.

St. Teresa gave us some terminology to refer to her descriptions of infused prayer and help us to understand what is indescribable and difficult to put into language. The progressions, in her words, are: infused recollection, quiet, union, ecstacy, flight of the spirit. These are the sweet and delightful forms.

She used these other terms to describe the dark and arid forms: a severe distress, a pain full of delight, a flaming dart.

Both the sweet and arid infusions are forms of contemplation, because in each manifestation, the soul receives them without being able either to resist them or bring them about, no matter how much it may desire to do so. In each, the soul is visited by God and the person is deeply, lovingly, attentive to Him as long as it lasts - even in the arid type. The latter is more descriptive of the purification that takes place in the Dark Night of the Soul.

I realize this is difficult to describe fully in just a few posts here. I hope it sheds a little more light and will give us a basis to communicate with somewhat clearer understanding. I am so delighted to meet another sister in Carmel, and I trust we will have much to share together.

God’s peace and joy,
Carole

Very well said,
Your Brother in Carmel, Leo

 

[DBT]

Leo44:

Very well said,
Your Brother in Carmel, Leo

I agree

Lately I’ve been reading from Carmelite Studies - Carmel and Contemplation. Your posts are a wonderful overview to everything I’ve read in the entire book!

 

[Joysong]

Dear Teresa,

I just returned to this thread after a long holiday weekend, and I could not imagine how the words you addressed to me in the other thread have come from a loving heart such as yours. Maybe it would help us regain our footing if we look at a couple paragraphs to understand each other better.

You:

Thank you for your message and your thoughtful response. What you refer to is meditation which is not the same as ‘contemplation’ contemplation is a special gift . This has been greatly stressed by my Spiritual Director who is a Carmelite nun active order, when I discussed this very topic you are speaking of, with her.

What these words of yours saying to me? You put your interpretation upon my message as though I was clearly wrong because your Carmelite nun had taught you more correctly. Then you injected what I really meant by stating below that I was talking more or less about faith. You did not even ask for further clarification.

What you refer to here is a revelation within the heart that leads all souls of faith to ‘realise’ that there is God and that Christ Jesus is His Son and is also God, this is gift as we know, faith is gift, But this doesn’t pertain to contemplation as faith can be arrived at by watching another human being of faith or reading scripture, by a tragedy in life, by a lack of ‘finding’ happiness outside of the self in materialism etc etc

And, not understanding what I meant by “tasting” God, you proceeded to tell me what I really meant – again, assuming I was mistaken, that we really taste God by spiritual formation in faith.

You:

Then it is true a person ‘tastes’ God by spiritual formation in the faith, by the teachings of those around them and the Majesterium of the church, we constantly have revelations in faith that are illuminating and assist the transference of understanding to the heart so that we are able to deeper love our Triune God and come closer to being Christ-like, this again is not the same as contemplative prayer.

Without asking for references to back up my statements, you implied that it is a fallacy to believe many may have been gifted with contemplation, even though St. Teresa *herself *wrote about it in Interior Castle, the fifth mansion.

You:

I am NOT saying that no other soul than St Teresa has /had this gift, God grants it to whom He chooses, but to say there are many who have this gift is a fallocy. It is an extremely rare and special gift.

In the following statement, what I hear you saying is, “No thank you for your incorrect versions - I will listen to those whom I trust instead.”

You:

I think we will have to agree to differ as no disrespect to yourself, but I will let my spiritual development and understanding of this and other Carmelite issues and charisms be led by my Spiritual Director and my Priest.

Now perhaps would be the time to state what humility caused me to omit. I held the office in Carmel as Mistress of Formation, and it was my duty to train the new people in the spirit of Carmel, as well as give talks to the regular membership. Prior to becoming an official chapter, we had several years in formation by a Carmelite nun who received special permission from the Provincial to come out of cloister to give us instruction each meeting. We taped these precious conferences.

When I was elected by the Council for this position by secret ballot, this same nun sat in on many of my conferences, and found nothing of error in my teachings to correct. Many of my teachings are still in use in the tape library. I, too, was given a blessing by the Order to found another chapter in another city which is fourishing with many new members.

Continuing …

 

[Joysong]

Continuing…

I do respect very much the action of the Holy Spirit, who brings into our paths those who will be His instruments helping another to aspire to a deeper walk with the Lord. When I sensed a reluctance on your part to listen to anything I tried to share, I stated that I would be bowing out for now. I deferred to the Lord’s action and trusted you would just find your own way and your own Directors.

You mentioned in the other thread that I came across rather abrasively, and for any part that I played in your coming to that conclusion, I apologize. Perhaps I am not the one to help you, although I am always available to share any of the insights I have gleaned during my time in Carmel, if anyone wants to ask questions. I did not form “myself,” but as you might realize, we are part of a Body, and become formed by one another and the Lord. So anything I share, would only be what I have learned from others.

Teresa, the only reason I suspected you were new was that a long-standing member would have already come to know some of the things about which I wrote, because the members spend most of their meetings studying these deep writings in the presence of those who are wise in the ways of Carmel.

I concluded that the nun who taught you was probably teaching perfectly and correctly, but you had not been a member long enough to absorb it with clear understanding. It became evident in your posts. That is not a bad thing at all. I am edified that God has given you the vocational call, and some day you will know many concepts that seem dark and mysterious at this time.

Although you may not wish to converse with me, I trust we can be united in our love for the Lord and one another, irrespective of our differences. For this, O Lord, I pray!

Carole

 

[WhiteDove]

I’ve been reading my thread and notice that there is some spiritual ‘one-upmansship’ that seems to be going on. May I remind everyone that pride is a big pitfall of the spiritual life. And, I think folks ought to be careful before making presumptions, based on a few typed words online, as to the spiritual state of others.

As far as these special states of prayer being extremely rare, has anyone done a study of this? I would guess that many folks who have these experiences keep them extremely private, because of their intimate nature. Not everyone goes telling everyone else about their personal prayer life. And, if they are advertising their ‘special’ gifts to others, I would suspect that they were indulging in self promotion, as human beings are so prone to do…

 

[Joysong]

Dear Dove,

WhiteDove:

I’ve been reading my thread and notice that there is some spiritual ‘one-upmanship’ that seems to be going on.

Not really, Dove, in case you were directing this to me. My point was to correct an assumption by Teresa that I was mistaken in redefining a wrong description of contemplation. It would not be charity to allow this to remain, because it could confuse a casual reader. She tended to believe her Spiritual Director only, and passed on the incorrect understanding to others here.

Suppose somebody had read this who was gifted by God with a moment of pure contemplation. Teresa wrote that it is a fallacy and rare, so the poor soul would not realize what a blessing it had been given and fail to give due thanks to God. On the other hand, the person would know certainly it was from God, as these gifts usually leave no doubt, and could become inflated with pride. The person would have read that it is extremely rare, and only special saints are gifted. So the devil could inject his wiles with temptations to believe it is a saint.

You:

As far as these special states of prayer being extremely rare, has anyone done a study of this?

St. Teresa wrote about it in the second paragraph of the Fifth Mansion, Interior Castle. You can find it with a search on Google in the “Catholic First” site. I regret that I cannot obtain links at this time, since I am in a library.

She had this to say,** “Although I stated some, there are really very few who do not enter these mansions that I am about to describe. Some get further than others, but as I say, the majority manage to get inside.”**

In the Fifth Mansion, she begins to speak about the experience of the prayer of union. This is an extremely high gift of contemplation, far above the other touches of contemplation granted by God in the gifts of infused recollection, and the prayer of quiet. It was her belief that the majority get to this point. Majority is a strong word, I agree, but she was speaking to persons of deep prayer. That would probably exclude a casual christian that has not embraced a committed life of devotion to prayer.

You:

I would guess that many folks who have these experiences keep them extremely private, because of their intimate nature. Not everyone goes telling everyone else about their personal prayer life. And, if they are advertising their ‘special’ gifts to others, I would suspect that they were indulging in self promotion, as human beings are so prone to do.

Exactly - unless the Lord prompts them, for the good of another, to explain the nature and/or method of them, without divulging the specific graces God has granted personally to them. There is a big difference in the way this is shared. St. Teresa, herself, also wrote about specific words the Lord addressed to her, and particular visions which she had, but I believe it was instructional and done under obedience.

Certainly, she could have omitted the specifics and kept them hidden, but she chose to divulge some of her supernatural experiences, though not required to do so under obedience. It is very edifying to read some of them. All sin in in the intention, is it not? If one were to take out a webpage to all the world to let them know they are special persons, then yes - that is pride in its essence.

Carole