I didn’t take it that’s what he/she stated, just that not everything has to be made out of already existing matter. I take it that the reference is to something like virtual particles that under some interpretations can “pop in to” existence. Still requires the quantum vacuum as a precondition though.Out of nothing comes nothing. You have presented no rational reason to think that something can pop out of nothing just because God willed it to.
What does ‘come from’ mean in this context?No. “Comes from” != “is made out of.”
What do you mean you are not familiar with that mathematical form? If Peter is removed from Hilberts hotel, then Hilbert’s hotel is still full, but there is a diffrenc between the two sets in that one contains Peter and the other doesn’t.Belorg,
You apparently are talking about a different set of infinities , one in which you can transform an one infinite set into another infinite set merely by removing two members. I am not familiar with that mathematical form. Could you reference something for me?
Objective rality could be constructed from discrete space I guess, but not if what/whoever created objective reality is immutable.You seem to be a reasonly intelligent person, what to do think about my contention that objective reality is constructed from discrete space? See post 291.
Yppop
The quantum vacuum is a condition out of which VP can “pop into existence”. If this hapens, the quantuim vacuum changes. God is not a condition out of which things can pop into existence.I didn’t take it that’s what he/she stated, just that not everything has to be made out of already existing matter. I take it that the reference is to something like virtual particles that under some interpretations can “pop in to” existence. Still requires the quantum vacuum as a precondition though.
As for God, under the theistic view he is something. So even then it wouldn’t mean that something came into existence from nothing.
As Elve would say, for the 924th time we cannot understand how God can make " something " come into existence, where as no-being preceded the creation of a limited, contingent universe. And it did not " come from " God as " from somehing " either. God does not create anyting or " make " anything " out of " his own essence.Out of nothing comes nothing. You have presented no rational reason to think that something can pop out of nothing just because God willed it to.
So where did it come from?As for God, under the theistic view he is something. So even then it wouldn’t mean that something came into existence from nothing.
If you don’t know how God created the universe, then why should they accept God as the cause?As Elve would say, for the 924th time we cannot understand how God can make " something " come into existence, where as no-being preceded the creation of a limited, contingent universe. And it did not " come from " God as " from somehing " either. God does not create anyting or " make " anything " out of " his own essence.
Linus
From the theist’s standpoint? The answer is from God, obviously.So where did it come from?
What does that mean?From the theist’s standpoint? The answer is from God, obviously.
Looks like we are at an impass. Think what you want. When you pass on, you will know for sure who was right. LinusOut of nothing comes nothing. You have presented no rational reason to think that something can pop out of nothing just because God willed it to.
Because not knowing how, does not disprove the what.If you don’t know how God created the universe, then why should they accept God as the cause?
Defined Catholic Dogma is that God created the universe in time out of nothing, no matter what " science " or Belorg or Linux or all the athiests in the world believe. Notice, I said " belief " because they have no proof whatsoever that they are right and far less reasonsable reasons than the proofs that Thomas offers to demonstrate that God created the universe out of nothing. LinusI didn’t take it that’s what he/she stated, just that not everything has to be made out of already existing matter. I take it that the reference is to something like virtual particles that under some interpretations can “pop in to” existence. Still requires the quantum vacuum as a precondition though.
As for God, under the theistic view he is something. So even then it wouldn’t mean that something came into existence from nothing.
“X comes from Y” = “Y caused X”, I think that’s a fine gloss.What does ‘come from’ mean in this context?
I think “Y bbkjkjkjnhkjed X” is a much more accurate description. Or you could just admit that you don’t have a clue.“X comes from Y” = “Y caused X”, I think that’s a fine gloss.
That’s one thing theists have that we don’t: if we are wrong, we will stand corrected, but if you are wrong you will never know it.Looks like we are at an impass. Think what you want. When you pass on, you will know for sure who was right. Linus
I think there is such a thing as causation. But I also think causation has meaning. You obviously do not agree with that.Well do you not believe that there’s such a thing as causation, or what?
Dogma has no place in a philosophical discussion.Defined Catholic Dogma is that God created the universe in time out of nothing, no matter what " science " or Belorg or Linux or all the athiests in the world believe. Notice, I said " belief " because they have no proof whatsoever that they are right and far less reasonsable reasons than the proofs that Thomas offers to demonstrate that God created the universe out of nothing. Linus
I think that causation has meaning, and I don’t see why you’d think that I don’t.I think there is such a thing as causation. But I also think causation has meaning. You obviously do not agree with that.
I agree with creatio ex nihilo as declared by Lateran IV, but I’m not sure people are really understanding what that means. It doesn’t mean that God creates the universe out of nothing as if “nothing” is some kind of preexisting substance. Nothing is the lack of any substance or being of any kind. So it would be more accurate to say that God ultimately caused material being to exist where none existed.Defined Catholic Dogma is that God created the universe in time out of nothing, no matter what " science " or Belorg or Linux or all the athiests in the world believe. Notice, I said " belief " because they have no proof whatsoever that they are right and far less reasonsable reasons than the proofs that Thomas offers to demonstrate that God created the universe out of nothing. Linus