St Thomas & Vatican 2 pro-choice?

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Ok so last weekend I attended what was supposed to be a debate but instead turned out to be a lecture on the “history” on how abortion came about in this country, and on why this topic should no longer be up for debate because it is not law. They had 3 speakers and the last one happened to talk about the Catholic Church and the role it played leading up to Roe v. Wade and how the big bad Church did everything possible to stop the outcome. Now according to this lady she said that the majority of lay people wanted pro-choice and contraception to be allowed by the Church. According to her Pope John 23 open V2 so that the outcome would be for more “democratic” Church including allowing contraception. But because he died, and the “mean” Paul 6 was pope he changed all that, and made sure that the Church continued to be a monarchy. her words. She stated this by also including Humane Vitae. Now when one Catholic (the only one the auditorium other than myself) stated that the Church as always been against abortion, she “corrected him” by saying that protection life was only a new concept of the Church and that the Church fathers never thought it. She even went as far to say that St Thomas Aquinas was pro-choice in his theology.

So my questions are this, was the opening of v2 meant to be pro-choice? Was Aquinas pro-choice? I have to do a speech on this on Monday and want to know where could she have gotten this idea from? Thanks
 
First of all, these are common false statements. I cannot determine where they came from in her particular case. The Supreme Court, not the people, allowed abortion on demand.

Here is the history of contraception:

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html

Please read it.

Vatican II had nothing to do with making the Church more “democratic” and the death of Pope John XXIII did not mean Pope Paul VI took over as manager of something like a corporation. The Church is not a corporation. It is God’s Church on earth. Calling it a monarchy is a sign of a radical feminist viewpoint.

Peace,
Ed
 
Ok thank you for the good info. What about Aquainas? Where would she get this idea that he and the church fathers might be pro-choice?
 
Saint Thomas Aquinas’s theologies had some errors. At the time, I think he taught that child was given a soul at the first kick, or quickening, so abortion before this time would not be murder. He taught that Abortion before the quickening was sinful, but only if done to conceal a sexual sin (fornication/adultry). Its likely more nuanced than this, but I haven’t had the time to learn the full story, and this is likely why the speaker tried in vain to invoke Saint Thomas for her evil cause.

I say in vain, because, well, he’s a saint, so obviously changed his mind somewhere between here and heaven :p. However, there is a powerful story however, that may show just how St. Thomas radically grieves his role in creating this particular theology, where he appears to a Serbian abortionist, and convinces the man to return to his faith and abandon the practice.

It can be found here: lifesitenews.com/?/news/serbian-abortionist-who-aborted-48000-babies-becomes-pro-life-activist. To invoke the Saint’s name today would be quite disingenuous!
 
If St. Thomas had the scientific knowledge we have today then he would not have held that opinion. If in fact, as some liberals would like you to believe, a fetus has no soul and is not a person, then killing it would not be murder, but as St. Thomas suggested, would be a sexual sin

However, as we all know today, an unborn child is still a person and has a heatbeat, and a soul. Therefore abortion can be considered murder.

People must consider the times in their arguments. I’m sure many early theologians thought the world was flat and that the Earth was the center of the universe. But no one is going to argue a position quoting them to disprove reality.
 
wjp984 said:
If St. Thomas had the scientific knowledge we have today then he would not have held that opinion. If in fact, as some liberals would like you to believe, a fetus has no soul and is not a person, then killing it would not be murder, but as St. Thomas suggested, would be a sexual sin

However, as we all know today, an unborn child is still a person and has a heatbeat, and a soul. Therefore abortion can be considered murder.

People must consider the times in their arguments. I’m sure many early theologians thought the world was flat and that the Earth was the center of the universe. But no one is going to argue a position quoting them to disprove reality.
Click to expand...
Please do not confuse the question by naming other falsehoods. The “flat earth” idea is a myth. It’s not true.

bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm

Peace,
Ed
 
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