Stance on the virgin Mary

[Lutheranteach]

She was Jesus’s mother and has no other title than that. She gave him his human qualities. She is a wonderful example of obedience to God and her role should not be downplayed or ignored. I do not believe she was immaculately conceived. I believe like anyone else she lived, she died. I don’t believe in “the assumption.” She does not hear our prayers. She does not intercede on anyone’s behalf. Did she and Joseph have a normal marriage with all that went with it after Jesus’ birth? Maybe. Did they have other children? Maybe. I think you will find that is pretty much the protestant (particularly Lutheran) perspective in a nutshell. I know, nearly unthinkable positions for almost any Catholic.

 

[Shin]

Many things God reveals to us we can learn about very logically and see some of the reasons why He revealed them. . .

But truly we have to await God’s pleasure what obey what He desires.

If He wishes us to love and know His mother more greatly, we should be very happy to do something to so please Him. Certainly it is a great privilege to be invited to do so and approach such holy knowledge and person.

Once Protestant prejudices are put aside we are free to love in ways that are natural to us without suspicion or backwards glances, fearing something that there is no danger of would occur.

And these things are great subjects for meditation in prayer.

If God reveals something as a truth to the world that cannot be argued… Who is going to argue with God?

 

[Filioque]

She was Jesus’s mother and has no other title than that. She gave him his human qualities. She is a wonderful example of obedience to God and her role should not be downplayed or ignored. I do not believe she was immaculately conceived. I believe like anyone else she lived, she died. I don’t believe in “the assumption.” She does not hear our prayers. She does not intercede on anyone’s behalf. Did she and Joseph have a normal marriage with all that went with it after Jesus’ birth? Maybe. Did they have other children? Maybe. I think you will find that is pretty much the protestant (particularly Lutheran) perspective in a nutshell. I know, nearly unthinkable positions for almost any Catholic.

It all depends on what Lutheranism you are talking about, Swedish Lutherans who maintained Apostolic Succession, or the German Lutherans in Germany who range from what mirrors the Low Church Anglicans, or those who maintained Churches that look Catholic, with altars, crucifiexes, Saints and Statues, vestments, and a Catholic Ethos as well as worship. Or we could talk about the two major US Lutherans, and minor divisions around the world… There is of course Martin Luther who would have had a major fit over Ascribing to our Lady no other title than Jesus’ mother, or her not hearing our prayers.

 

[wisdomseeker]

My apologies to those whom I said did not answer my questions. I was reading their posts hastily and not thoroughly. I went back for a re-read, and there was more to the story.

I think those are some good answers, and have put me in a better understanding than I was in before.

The truth is I am beginning to have faith in the Church’s authority, as it is starting to sound silly that God would leave us with only a cryptic book to guide us through a journey on which our eternal salvation or damnation depends.

But my faith is not enough, because I come from a family of Baptists and Pentecostals, some of which are very anti-Catholic. I need to be prepared to defend these beliefs based on things that they will accept. They will certainly not accept my faith in the Catholic church, but rather likely just worry even more that I am being brainwashed.

Here’s my new way to think about it:

Assume Mary was not without original sin.

Then what is the point of the immaculate conception? Why not just have Mary and Joseph consumate their marriage, make a baby, then God could manifest that baby with his spirit and divine nature, say he’s actually the son of God, and we would end up exactly where we are now, with a saviour that is the son of God and the son of a woman, whom we’d all revere and respect.

But God clearly didn’t choose to go this route. And to assume that Mary is not without sin would kind of contradict his choice.

It seems to be similar to the argument of the real presence or not. If you think of communion as just a symbol, it sort of trivializes the whole point of the new covenant with Christ.

Anyways, these are just my thoughts on the issue.

Thanks for the helpful replies, and sorry for the negativity that came out in my previous post.

-nt

Very good indeed.

if i were you, i wouldnt try to explain the dogma of Holy Mother to any Protestant. they will never understand. try to explain the Church first. without the understanding of the Church first, they will reject Mother rather quickly.

i personally think that you take a time of silence to their remarks while praying and asking God for wisdom. you will be surprised the Truth that comes out of your mouth when the time comes. dont be so quick to respond those who attack our Faith. be very patient with them.

zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m3/4mrkc.html

O truth, you are present to those who seek your help, and at one and the same time you answer all, though they seek your counsel on different matters. You respond clearly, but not everyone hears clearly. All ask what they wish, but do not always hear the answer they wish. Your best servant is he who is intent not so much on hearing his petition answered, as rather on willing whatever he hears from you.
St Augustine