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TheExorcist
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Is there a standard hymn book for the church? The masses Ive gone to have all had the paperbound seasonal missalette. That’s all they’ve had in the pew.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Usige
Guest
Yes, the “official” musical book for the Roman Church is the Graduale Romanum. That being said I’d be surprised if you every saw one in most parishes since it’s in Latin and uses neumes (i.e. 4 line “chant notation”) rather than the 5 line modern notation.
Outside of that it depends on the parish. Many use OCP’s Breaking Bread if they use modernist/charismatic hymns, but there are many others.
Outside of that it depends on the parish. Many use OCP’s Breaking Bread if they use modernist/charismatic hymns, but there are many others.
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MarkThompson
Guest
The answer above borders on being a joke response – I really hate when people offer a confusing reply based on some technicality to a person who just wants a simple basic answer. Let’s try it this way:Is there a standard hymn book for the church? The masses Ive gone to have all had the paperbound seasonal missalette. That’s all they’ve had in the pew.
Thanks!
The short answer is, no. Any number of different hymn books, most of them published by private companies, can be used by a parish. Generally the parish priest and his music director will pick the one they like best; or they can use no hymnal at all and print a music aid for each week; or they can have multiple hymnals in the pews; or whatever.
The longer answer is, there’s a vague, technical sense in which the Graduale Romanum, which is a book of Gregorian chant, might be considered an “official” “hymn” book of the Church. (Note the quotation marks around both “official” and “hymn.”) It was compiled by an abbey in France around a century ago based on traditional melodies and some new compositions, and was approved by the Vatican as the current “gold standard” for Gregorian chant. But there is no obligation to use the Graduale Romanum, and it is not now, nor has it ever been, for congregations to sing from, but only monks and Gregorian choirs. It would never be found in the pews. Second, the bishops’ conferences in some countries – Canada is the only one I know for sure of – actually have approved uniform nationwide hymnals. I don’t think their use is mandatory in those countries (maybe someone from Canada knows what the situation is there?), but adopting it seems to be at least pretty common there. Your profile doesn’t say where you are located, but the United States definitely does not have any uniform hymnal, nor does the UK or, I think, Australia or NZ.
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TheExorcist
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Thanks to both of you. Those are both good answers, one more thorough than the other. I e gone to Mass in two parishes, one regular OF and the other an FSSP EF. The missal at the first was Today’s Missal from OCP. Follow up question: the FSSP parish normally would not have any kind of singing at low mass. I’ve never been to a high mass or solemn high mass but I understand there is chant at those. Is that where we would see Graduale Romanum?
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MarkThompson
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Well, you would not see it personally; the choir would be singing from it – if they were singing Gregorian chant. That is pretty common nowadays at EF sung Masses, but they could just as well sing, say, polyphonic music by a Renaissance composer, or an uber-simplified non-Gregorian chant setting (e.g., just singing the words to a monotone to speed through it, which was common before Vatican II). It would be possible to have a complete sung high Mass with none, some, or all of the music being from the Graduale.
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Usige
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Mark, my apologies for the “joke” response. I was trying to point out that the only musical references specifically mentioned in the GIRM is the Graduale Romanum and Graduale Simplex, hence the quotes around official. When typing from a phone it is a tad difficult to go into lengthy replies.
TheExorcist, you would most likely encounter music from the Graduale Romanum in an TLM High Mass or *Missa Cantata *(i.e. sung Mass). Most non-EF parishes would more likely use the Graduale Simplex (if they used either) as it has a smaller and less complex collection of chants. You would not normally see either in the pews as these are actually ment more for choirs.
TheExorcist, you would most likely encounter music from the Graduale Romanum in an TLM High Mass or *Missa Cantata *(i.e. sung Mass). Most non-EF parishes would more likely use the Graduale Simplex (if they used either) as it has a smaller and less complex collection of chants. You would not normally see either in the pews as these are actually ment more for choirs.
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Dirt
Guest
Funny. I thought it was “Glory and Praise”
Hey Mark, you are a music guy, does Musicam Sacram apply to the Hymnals used in US Parishes? Do the publishing houses have to submit to the USCCB for approval?
And for what it is worth, my favorite is “The Adoremus Hymnal”.
Pax Christi
Hey Mark, you are a music guy, does Musicam Sacram apply to the Hymnals used in US Parishes? Do the publishing houses have to submit to the USCCB for approval?
And for what it is worth, my favorite is “The Adoremus Hymnal”.
Pax Christi
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mburn16
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most around here use the Gather Comprehensive…
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MarkThompson
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My understanding (and I’ll welcome correction from anybody else) is that the USCCB decreed that it would deem any song or hymnal to be approved which was approved by the bishop of the place where it is published. Thus the system now operates similarly to how imprimaturs have always operated.Funny. I thought it was “Glory and Praise”
Hey Mark, you are a music guy, does Musicam Sacram apply to the Hymnals used in US Parishes? Do the publishing houses have to submit to the USCCB for approval?
And for what it is worth, my favorite is “The Adoremus Hymnal”.
Pax Christi
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Cavaille-Coll
Guest
In the United States there is no national hymnal. Most parishes buy them from one of several publishers, such as Ignatius Press (Adoremus), St. Michael Hymnal, Corpus Christi Watershed (Vatican II Hymnal), J.S. Paluch (We Celebrate), Liturgical Press (Collegeville Hymnal, Celebrating the Eucharist), GIA (Worship, Gather) and Oregon Catholic Press (OCP - Breaking Bread, Flor y Canto, Music Issue, Journeysongs, etc.). The latter commands around a 60% market share of American parishes, but the number seems to be diminishing.
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Dirt
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Thank you Mark.
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I_Thirst
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My local RC parish uses it too. While there are good hymns (and even a few chants) in there, you’d never know it by what’s selected week-in and week-out.
And then there’s the dreaded Supplement. :crying:
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TheExorcist
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The Gather Comprehensive looks pretty good, just from the GIA website. What’s the problem with the tunes in your parish? Boring, uninspired?My local RC parish uses it too. While there are good hymns (and even a few chants) in there, you’d never know it by what’s selected week-in and week-out.
And then there’s the dreaded Supplement. :crying:
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Chatter163
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Adoremus Hymnal. 
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I_Thirst
Guest
They tend to pick far too many of the Haugen-&-Hass style tunes. If you like that worship music style, it’s great. If not, it’s grating.
Two of our choirs pick (imo) some wonderful hymns out of the Gather and avoid the H-&-H hymns. The other choirs pick stuff that to my ears sounds like it would be better suited for a Disney Lion King Mass – which is often the Haugen and Hass material. It’s a big parish, so we’re lucky that we have several choirs to choose from.
Still, I don’t attend that RC parish on Sundays. Even though it is close, I’d rather drive a little further to my local Eastern Catholic Church (UGCC). Much, much more singing at a Divine Liturgy! And smells and bells too.
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TheExorcist
Guest
Not familiar with H & H but I just went over to iTunes and listened to some and…eh no. That might be ok for everyday religious listening but not for Mass.
I tend to be a fuddy duddy when it comes to taste in worship music but I’ve loosened up in previous years.
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I_Thirst
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Yeesh … everyday? I dunno. I’m not sure my faith is that strong.
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TheExorcist
Guest
Actually I’ve listened to a little more of this music in the last couple days and I fear you’re right. From the few pieces I listened to first of that music it seemed like all the other “Christian contemporary” music, which I do like to listen to in everyday life (not really every day like it may sound before LoL). However further listening to the H & H stuff really makes me think its more like hippy Catholic stuff with the acoustic guitars and stuff. The song that really made me start this thread was “One Bread, One Body” which really moved me to tears during one the first Masses I ever attended. However, listening to more of John Foley’s stuff it seems like a lot of it is like the H & H music.
Another question for anybody reading or lurking: I just listened to the podcast of the EWTN Bookmark program where Doug interviewed Helen Hull Hitchcock, the editor of the Adoremus Hymnal. Anybody’s parish use the Adoremus Hymnal?
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DarrenOglesby
Guest
I would usually agree about the Haugen and Hass, but latley I have been listening to some hymns from Modern Hymn Writers, and it has helped me alot spiritually. There is more to being Catholic than just attending mass on Sunday.
Or better yet, there needs to be more to being a Catholic than just attending mass on Sunday. Same goes to people of other faiths.We owe God so much more of ourselves
Or better yet, there needs to be more to being a Catholic than just attending mass on Sunday. Same goes to people of other faiths.We owe God so much more of ourselves
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