Standing after Communion

[mford]

In a diocese where I attend daily Mass near my work, the Bishop in collaboration with the diocesan liturgy committee has asked everyone to stand following the priest’s reception of communion and remain standing until everyone in the congregation has received communion and the priest sits down. The reason given is that Communion is not a private moment and standing together is a demonstration of our unity as Catholics as we make up the mystical Body of Christ. I understand that those who questioned the Bishop on this matter were told that by kneeling after communion, they were being disobidient to his athority and to the mind of the Church. I understand the need for obedience but I feel most comfortable in kneeling; it is a more natural posture for me in adoring our Lord following reception of Communion and helps me to remain recollected during this time with Him. I do not wish to be disobedient to ecclesial authority, but does it apply to this type of situation where a diocese adopts it’s own liturgical posture apart from the general norm of the Church?

 

[b_justb]

This will be cool to see responses too. Have you thought of posting this in the Apologetics forum? Some of those guys are way sharp and I don’t know if they wonder into other areas. I have no response directly to give, just ready to see some of the Deacons that post here weigh in.

 

[aimee]

b_justb:

This will be cool to see responses too. Have you thought of posting this in the Apologetics forum? Some of those guys are way sharp and I don’t know if they wonder into other areas. I have no response directly to give, just ready to see some of the Deacons that post here weigh in.

I agree…but as for me…I would probably kneel…I don’t understand this

 

[buffalo]

I believe the GIRM allows either kneeling or standing after Communion.

 

[aimee]

buffalo:

I believe the GIRM allows either kneeling or standing after Communion.

So then would one be disobedient if kneeling , as in the above case?

 

[joeysmom]

aimee:

So then would one be disobedient if kneeling , as in the above case?

Our pastor is the diocesan theologian. He instructed as to stand after Communion because that is what the Bishop directed but he said people are free to kneel or stand. I don’t believe you would be disobedient if you kneel. But perhaps you should check out the GIRM. You can find it online.

 

[buffalo]

aimee:

So then would one be disobedient if kneeling , as in the above case?

Hmmmm! That’s a tough one to answer since we are to be obedient to our Bishop, but the Holy See reserves the right to intepret the GIRM…

GIRM 43: “they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.”

** Communion Posture**
42. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered. Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.

A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

     While the desirability of everyone in the congregation making the common gestures and postures throughout the Mass is clear (a sign of unity), recent interpretations of these norms by the Holy See provides some insight into the mind of the Church. It should be noted that the Holy See alone can authentically interpret legislation it has initiated or approved. The following was issued in response to a *dubium* of Cardinal George of Chicago. The reference is to the general posture norm, GIRM 43, and whether communicants can kneel down for their thanksgiving after Communion when everyone else is standing, however, it is clear that the mind (*mens*) of the Holy See on the role of posture is expressed. The general principle enunciated in the response would therefore also apply to GIRM 160, and the issues of kneeling to receive and genuflecting before receiving.
   Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the        Sacraments

            5 June 2003

        Prot. n. 855/03/L

        **Dubium**: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the *Missale Romanum*,            *editio typica tertia*, to forbid this practice?

        **Responsum:** *Negative, et ad mentem*. The *mens*             is that that the prescription of the *Institutio Generalis             Missalis Romani*, no. 43, is intended, on one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of the Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

        Francis Cardinal Arinze
       Prefect

 For more Roman Interpretations regarding posture and other             liturgical norms, see:

          [General Instruction - Roman             Interpretations](http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/GIRM_Roman.htm)

 

[Lumancer]

Our parish has been dealing with this issue recently, and while I do not know the Church’s official position on the matter, I do know that what the Holy See allows is not to be disallowed. In otherwords, if they say we can kneel OR stand, individual parishes have no right to force one behavior or the other.
It’s possible also that technicalities may vary by diocese.

But personally I don’t get why anyone would be against kneeling before what we believe to be God incarnate…

 

[aimee]

Lumancer:

Our parish has been dealing with this issue recently, and while I do not know the Church’s official position on the matter, I do know that what the Holy See allows is not to be disallowed. In otherwords, if they say we can kneel OR stand, individual parishes have no right to force one behavior or the other.
It’s possible also that technicalities may vary by diocese.

But personally I don’t get why anyone would be against kneeling before what we believe to be God incarnate…

me either…I kneel …

 

[aimee]

buffalo:

Hmmmm! That’s a tough one to answer since we are to be obedient to our Bishop, but the Holy See reserves the right to intepret the GIRM…

GIRM 43: “they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.”

** Communion Posture**
42. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered. Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.

A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

     While the desirability of everyone in the congregation making the common gestures and postures throughout the Mass is clear (a sign of unity), recent interpretations of these norms by the Holy See provides some insight into the mind of the Church. It should be noted that the Holy See alone can authentically interpret legislation it has initiated or approved. The following was issued in response to a *dubium* of Cardinal George of Chicago. The reference is to the general posture norm, GIRM 43, and whether communicants can kneel down for their thanksgiving after Communion when everyone else is standing, however, it is clear that the mind (*mens*) of the Holy See on the role of posture is expressed. The general principle enunciated in the response would therefore also apply to GIRM 160, and the issues of kneeling to receive and genuflecting before receiving.
   Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the        Sacraments

            5 June 2003

        Prot. n. 855/03/L

        **Dubium**: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the *Missale Romanum*,            *editio typica tertia*, to forbid this practice?

        **Responsum:** *Negative, et ad mentem*. The *mens*             is that that the prescription of the *Institutio Generalis             Missalis Romani*, no. 43, is intended, on one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of the Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

        Francis Cardinal Arinze
       Prefect

 For more Roman Interpretations regarding posture and other             liturgical norms, see:

          [General Instruction - Roman             Interpretations](http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/GIRM_Roman.htm)

Thanks, Buffalo

 

[mford]

Thanks for your help on this. I must admit that on returning to the pew following reception of Holy Communion, I observed the posture of people as I was trying to make a quick assessment of what percentage were kneeling. And I it occurred to me that those who were standing after they received looked as though they were waiting for something. Those who were kneeling looked like people experiencing something (or Someone!).

 

[Bruised_Reed]

mford:

In a diocese where I attend daily Mass near my work, the Bishop in collaboration with the diocesan liturgy committee has asked everyone to stand following the priest’s reception of communion and remain standing until everyone in the congregation has received communion and the priest sits down. The reason given is that Communion is not a private moment and standing together is a demonstration of our unity as Catholics as we make up the mystical Body of Christ. I understand that those who questioned the Bishop on this matter were told that by kneeling after communion, they were being disobidient to his athority and to the mind of the Church. I understand the need for obedience but I feel most comfortable in kneeling; it is a more natural posture for me in adoring our Lord following reception of Communion and helps me to remain recollected during this time with Him. I do not wish to be disobedient to ecclesial authority, but does it apply to this type of situation where a diocese adopts it’s own liturgical posture apart from the general norm of the Church?

This is pretty much what we were instructed to do and why in my diocese. The Sister (now ex-sister ) from the Office of the Word said that people used to use this time after communion as “me and Jesus time” and said it in a “it’s cute but wrong” tone of voice. It took me nearly four years not to hear her saying that when ever I knelt after communion even outside of the diocese.

I kneel. Sometimes I’m not the only one. Because I do not want to be a distraction I try to sit as close to the back as I’m able and at the end of a pew.

 

[Elzee]

Bruised Reed:

This is pretty much what we were instructed to do and why in my diocese. The Sister (now ex-sister ) from the Office of the Word said that people used to use this time after communion as “me and Jesus time” and said it in a “it’s cute but wrong” tone of voice.

I’ve never understand this ‘me and Jesus’ concern. It seems to me that we are both united intimately to Christ in the Eucharist and with each other in the Body of Christ in the Eucharist. Why can’t we have a little ‘me and Jesus’ time (kneel after communion and pray silently for awhile), and then, while still kneeling, join in singing with the congregation in a common prayer of song to ‘pray as one’. What is wrong with a few seconds or couple minutes of personal thanksgiving before we pray with our brothers and sisters in Christ?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

mford:

In a diocese where I attend daily Mass near my work, the Bishop in collaboration with the diocesan liturgy committee has asked everyone to stand following the priest’s reception of communion and remain standing until everyone in the congregation has received communion and the priest sits down. The reason given is that Communion is not a private moment and standing together is a demonstration of our unity as Catholics as we make up the mystical Body of Christ. I understand that those who questioned the Bishop on this matter were told that by kneeling after communion, they were being disobidient to his athority and to the mind of the Church. I understand the need for obedience but I feel most comfortable in kneeling; it is a more natural posture for me in adoring our Lord following reception of Communion and helps me to remain recollected during this time with Him. I do not wish to be disobedient to ecclesial authority, but does it apply to this type of situation where a diocese adopts it’s own liturgical posture apart from the general norm of the Church?

“the Bishop in collaboration with the diocesan liturgy committee has asked everyone to stand following the priest’s reception of communion”

The Bishop has the authority to request this and everyone should follow his direction.

“and remain standing until everyone in the congregation has received communion”

He does not have the authority to request this.

“I understand that those who questioned the Bishop on this matter were told that by kneeling after communion, they were being disobidient to his athority and to the mind of the Church.”

Absolutely not! The Liturgical documents do not give the Bishop the authority to determine the posture AFTER you receive Holy Communion and return to your seat.

Rome and confirmed this. It is totally up to the individual to kneel. sit or stand as they choose.

 

[MrS]

“the Bishop in collaboration with the diocesan liturgy committee has asked everyone to stand following the priest’s reception of communion”

The Bishop has the authority to request this and everyone should follow his direction.

“and remain standing until everyone in the congregation has received communion”

He does not have the authority to request this.

“I understand that those who questioned the Bishop on this matter were told that by kneeling after communion, they were being disobidient to his athority and to the mind of the Church.”

Absolutely not! The Liturgical documents do not give the Bishop the authority to determine the posture AFTER you receive Holy Communion and return to your seat.

Rome and confirmed this. It is totally up to the individual to kneel. sit or stand as they choose.

I believe you. And we prefer to kneel. But for those who wish to debate the point, can you give us a link?

We attended the Installation Mass for our Pastor yesterday.

The new pastor and the Bishop DID NOT hold hands during the Our Father… and in this particular parish they think they must.

The new pastor likes to kneel before the Tabernacle for 5 or so minutes before Mass.

Attendance was very light (sadly) from the “regular” parishioners who “stand” for communion, and hold hands, and like to sing " Gather us In" etc.

But everyone, yes everyone, knelt before, during, and after receiveing communion. The new pastor beamed. The bishop had no noticable expression.

 

[netmilsmom]

MrS:

I believe you. And we prefer to kneel. But for those who wish to debate the point, can you give us a link?

We attended the Installation Mass for our Pastor yesterday.

The new pastor and the Bishop DID NOT hold hands during the Our Father… and in this particular parish they think they must.

The new pastor likes to kneel before the Tabernacle for 5 or so minutes before Mass.

Attendance was very light (sadly) from the “regular” parishioners who “stand” for communion, and hold hands, and like to sing " Gather us In" etc.

But everyone, yes everyone, knelt before, during, and after receiveing communion. The new pastor beamed. The bishop had no noticable expression.

I am lovin’ your new pastor!

 

[richiejm3]

Movements and Posture

1. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.52 Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.

A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fraters (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.53

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

This is from the GIRM on the Usccb wed site. The section that reads “they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.” was expained by the priest at my church that we stand until everyone is back at there seats and the priest sits, then we are to all sit or kneel for a period of reflection. I can’t find anything in this part of the GIRM that his instructions contradict.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

MrS:

I believe you. And we prefer to kneel. But for those who wish to debate the point, can you give us a link?

We attended the Installation Mass for our Pastor yesterday.

The new pastor and the Bishop DID NOT hold hands during the Our Father… and in this particular parish they think they must.

The new pastor likes to kneel before the Tabernacle for 5 or so minutes before Mass.

Attendance was very light (sadly) from the “regular” parishioners who “stand” for communion, and hold hands, and like to sing " Gather us In" etc.

But everyone, yes everyone, knelt before, during, and after receiveing communion. The new pastor beamed. The bishop had no noticable expression.

The reference was presented above by Bufflo above.

 

[Elzee]

MrS:

I believe you. And we prefer to kneel. But for those who wish to debate the point, can you give us a link?

We attended the Installation Mass for our Pastor yesterday.

The new pastor and the Bishop DID NOT hold hands during the Our Father… and in this particular parish they think they must.

The new pastor likes to kneel before the Tabernacle for 5 or so minutes before Mass.

Attendance was very light (sadly) from the “regular” parishioners who “stand” for communion, and hold hands, and like to sing " Gather us In" etc.

But everyone, yes everyone, knelt before, during, and after receiveing communion. The new pastor beamed. The bishop had no noticable expression.

Your new pastor sounds like a gem and I hope you will all be very blessed in your parish. Be sure to tell him periodically how much you appreciate him…maybe even via a letter to the Bishop on occasion. Maybe a seed will be planted… .

 

[ajsauntjojo]

This might not be the answer you want to hear.

But I say follow your heart. You have just received the body and blood of our Lord. Is this really a time to be thinking about breaking a man made law? I think not. Let’s get back to opening our hearts to the Spirit!

The problem with these types of rules becomes that people are too busy seeing who is following the rule and who is breaking it and they forget this is their moment with Christ.