Standing After Lamb of God

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coton_lover

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Here in the San Bernardino diocese, (and probably other left coast dioceses), we have dispensed with kneeling after the Lamb of God. My family and I do not agree with this, so we still kneel. Are we acting properly, should we stand and not kneel? We feel it is so disrespectful not to kneel to our Lord at this time.
 
Kneeling at this time is far from a universal custom. Some parishes do, some don’t. In the parish where I grew up, we didn’t… and no one thought anything of it.

I wouldn’t make such an issue out of this, as to cause a distraction. Obey the instructions of your priest and your bishop who have lawful authority in these matters.
 
I am so used to kneeling that it is now a reflex action. I heard someone say that it is not a matter of kneeling but rather, if we truely understood the Eucarist to be the Lord would we ever get up off our knees?
 
#43 - GIRM

The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
 
buffalo said:
#43 - GIRM

The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

This is from the US adaptations for the GIRM, which were approved by Rome.

So as long as it is determined for the whole diocese to stand, then you are supposed to stand. It can not be a parish-by-parish deal. I went to a parish that stood in a kneeling diocese. They have recently been instructed to kneel, which a lot of people did anyway.

I am currently in Venezuela where the instruction is to stand from after the consecration. Still some people kneel after the Agnus Dei. I’m not sure why unless they are people who spent a lot of time in the US. Since we are in VZ, we follow the universal GIRM not the US adaptations but I must admit it feels weird not to kneel and I am looking forward to being back in the US.
 
Los Angeles: No Kneeling During Communion Rite
Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony has ordered Catholics to stand throughout the Communion rite – at variance with the US norm of kneeling after the Agnus Dei and optional kneeling after reception of Communion. Several other bishops have issued similar statements in recent months.

In an open letter, “Deepening the Spirit of Renewal”, published by the archdiocesan newspaper, The Tidings, October 24, 2003, Cardinal Mahony stated that he is requiring this change to take effect the first Sunday of Advent 2003, “with the aim of having it fruitfully implemented by the first Sunday of Lent 2004”.

In his letter, Cardinal Mahony said “it is a source of great joy” to him that many “have taken to heart the goals set in my Pastoral Letter on the Sunday Mass, Gather Faithfully Together”, issued in 1997. His letter also referred to a recent archdiocesan Synod that said, “‘ordained and lay ministers are to participate in ongoing, formal liturgical studies’”.

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) “emphasizes the importance of unity in liturgical practice”, Cardinal Mahony wrote, citing the last sentence of GIRM 42: “A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants”. Cardinal Mahony then states:
In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles the faithful stand from the Our Father, the beginning of the Communion Rite, until all have received Communion. They may sit or kneel during the time of sacred silence after all have received [see 43].
Code:
The cardinal's letter did not   mention that GIRM 43, as adapted for the United States, states   that "the people kneel at the *Agnus Dei*, unless the   diocesan bishop determines otherwise".
The cardinal does not offer an opinion, either, about how a bishop can best contribute to unity among the churches of the United States. His letter does not allude to the fact that most bishops will continue the customary practices of kneeling; nor does it comment on the repeated clarifications of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments stressing that it is not the intention of the GIRM to rigidly regulate the posture of the people at every point of the Mass, nor to abolish kneeling where it is customary.
 
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coton_lover:
Here in the San Bernardino diocese, (and probably other left coast dioceses), we have dispensed with kneeling after the Lamb of God. My family and I do not agree with this, so we still kneel. Are we acting properly, should we stand and not kneel? We feel it is so disrespectful not to kneel to our Lord at this time.
Personally, I think standing makes sense to me. After returning to your pew you may then sit, stand or kneel that is up to you.
 
I feel that we should still kneel in the fact that after the Lamb of God, the priest holds up the host to show to the congregation. I want to kneel before my Lord.
 
Do not place your own desires ahead of the wishes of those who have lawful authority over you (your parish, and your diocese). It is within their right under the guidelines of the Church to make the request that you stand, and you have no business causing a distraction.
 
Stand in suffering obedience and, while you do so, pray for a return to the long-standing practice of kneeling.
 
What bothers me most about it being left up to each diocese is that there is no longer any uniformity. The word catholic means universal. From M-W:

catholic: 1 a often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the church universal b often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it.

Notice the word undivided(emphasis mine in the definition)…years ago you could walk into any church and the rite of the Mass was the same, no matter where in the U.S. you went.

Being as I live on a border I attend Sunday Mass in Vermont, but daily Mass in NH. Burlington(Vt) diocese has told us to stand after the Agnus Dei, while Manchester(NH) has instructed us to kneel. I find myself (on Sundays) either starting to sink to my knees, only to catch myself, or concentrating so much on making sure I don’t, that I’m not giving my undivided attention to the Mass.

As Coton_lover said, I also want to (and feel I should) kneel before my Lord. Just my :twocents: .
 
Michael C:
I heard someone say that it is not a matter of kneeling but rather, if we truely understood the Eucarist to be the Lord would we ever get up off our knees?
Yes, we would, if He told us to!

At least I would.
 
Being as I live on a border I attend Sunday Mass in Vermont, but daily Mass in NH. Burlington(Vt) diocese has told us to stand after the Agnus Dei, while Manchester(NH) has instructed us to kneel. I find myself (on Sundays) either starting to sink to my knees, only to catch myself, or concentrating so much on making sure I don’t, that I’m not giving my undivided attention to the Mass.
It is a little odd how it has been applied. Much of my family live in NJ. I think there are 4 diocese in NJ. Most have said kneel after the AD but one diocese said to stand. NJ is a little state and I can’t understand why the Bishops of the state couldn’t agree on one posture. :confused:

Adoremus has some interesting transcripts of the Bishops meetings when they were discussing the US adaptations they wanted approved. The reason they wanted the option for standing was that some of the dioceses are near the Mexican border. Mexico follows the universal instruction and only kneels for the consecration. Since a lot of their parishioners go back and forth over the border, the Bishops in those border diocese wanted the option of standing so that their parishioners had some uniformity.

Now, last time I looked at a map, NJ was a long way from the Mexican border. I think most people would more easily understand a different norm for a different country than they understand why two parishes in the same state are following different rules.

In our own diocese, Galveston-Houston, the Bishop didn’t make a call on this at all. It’s been, what, 2 years since the GIRM came out? So each parish did it’s own thing. Strangely, in my parish it was about 1/2 and 1/2 except for the Spanish Mass where everyone knelt, even the music group!! So much for the Mexican border theory. Now that we have a new coadjuctor Bishop, he has taken the lead on implementing the GIRM and RS and all the parishes have received instruction that kneeling after the AD is the rule for G-H.
 
In our northern Michigan diocese we used to kneel at the Lamb of God until after everyone received Communion. Recently we were told to remain standing after the Our Father until all have received Communion.

What I find particularly bothersome is to stand while everyone is receiving Communion—hard for me to concentrate on a proper thanksgiving–if I close my eyes to concentrate, I start to do the “sway” … then open my eyes and find myself distracted watching the lineup of people in the aisle going forward—
I tell Jesus I offer this small cross to Him, and hope He understands I love Him and am grateful to Him, and I hope we are doing His will.
 
I really believe it should be an option if I want to kneel or stand in respect to my Lord. I guess I am going to have to write my bishop and Mahony that I believe they are wrong not letting people kneel if they would like to. I know I am within my right to tell them that there is nothing wrong with people kneeling at this time. I believe there is no disunity if I and my family kneel.

And then Unity?? I and my family do not go to Mass to be with the community. We are there for Jesus only, not for the community. When I die, the community won’t be behind me to back me up in front of Jesus, it will be just me. If I go to purgatory, then their prayers will help me, but not at my judgement.

Stand in suffering obedience and, while you do so, pray for a return to the long-standing practice of kneeling.
BTW: I suffer everytime I go to Mass. I am a convert to the faith, and I suffer everytime I see some new Protestantization that is introduced into the Church.
 
I’m sort of confused. One parish in my area insists that Archbishop Brunett has declared the posture after LOG to be standing in the seattle archdioces. but my local parish still kneels, but Father Mitchel (our pastor) is so incredebly faithful and true to the church, and I know he wouldn’t willingly/obstinantly disobey the bishop. personally i dont care for standing fter LOG and so am not going to be making a fuss, but i just am confused
 
There had been many questions about this same thing in the parishes here in New Mexico. I did some research and found the answer. Apprently those who wish to kneel may still kneel.

*Francis Cardinal George, O.M.I., Chairman of the Bishops Committee on the Liturgy, received the following clarification concerning the right interpretation of the “General Instruction of the Roman Missal” on the posture of the faithful from their own reception of Communion until the period of sacred silence after all Communions have been received (at which time they may sit or kneel as they prefer).

Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments*

*5 June 2003

Prot. n. 855/03/L

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?*

Responsum: Negative, et ad mentem. The mens is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of the Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

Francis Cardinal Arinze
Prefect


The 2002 General Instruction on the Roman Missal provides in paragraph 43 for the various postures of the people during the Mass. This universal liturgical law states that “the people should stand … from the prayer over the gifts to the end of the Mass, except at the places indicated later in this paragraph.” The indicated places are the Consecration, “when they kneel,” and during the period of reflection after Communion, when they may “kneel, stand or sit” (Congregation for Divine Worship, Notitiae 10, p.407).

This same paragraph allows each national bishops’ conference “to adapt the actions and postures … to the customs of the people.” The American bishops have done this, codifying the Tridentine practice, which has existed as an American custom under the 1970 Missal, of kneeling down after the Agnus Dei. In the American adaptation of the General Instruction to the 3rd edition of the Roman Missal (2002), it therefore states,

43 … The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

Thus, the norm for the United States continues the practice of kneeling down after the Agnus Dei, unless a bishop establishes, for his entire diocese, the practice of remaining standing. There is no faculty for individual parishes to do this, establishing a patchwork of practices within a single diocese.

For those who wish to kneel, where the norm is standing, the right to do so has been secured by the Holy See.

The above information was found at EWTNs Website the page is ewtn.com/expert/answers/kneeling_after_the_lamb_of_god.htm.

NMKNIGHT
 
whatever posture one adopts during different parts of the Mass, if the purpose is genuine desire to conform to the norms for the liturgy and show humble reverence for the presence of Christ, that is great. If the purpose is to demonstrate dissent to the decrees of your bishop, that is bad and outweighs any ‘reverential’ component. Disregard of Christ’s representative on earth in the person of the bishop is disregard of Christ himself.
 
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Brain:
I’m sort of confused. One parish in my area insists that Archbishop Brunett has declared the posture after LOG to be standing in the seattle archdioces. but my local parish still kneels, but Father Mitchel (our pastor) is so incredebly faithful and true to the church, and I know he wouldn’t willingly/obstinantly disobey the bishop. personally i dont care for standing fter LOG and so am not going to be making a fuss, but i just am confused
I also live in the Archdiocese of Seattle. I wrote to Archbishop Brunett and asked him about why he changed the posture. He claimed that the majority of parishes in the Archdiocese were already standing after the Agnus Dei (a point with which I disagree based on the various parishes I had attended and many conversations I have had from others in different areas of the Archdiocese). He made two points. (1) Standing after the Agnus Die was never a part of the post-Vatican II rite of Mass. This is true. The continued practice of kneeling after the Agnus Dei was a hold-over from the 1962 Missal which was widely practiced in the US. This is shown in the GIRM where it states that the faithful kneel after unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise. Note, this section of #43 is particular to the Churches in the United States. (2) He also said that his intention was to bring this practice in line with the universal norms of the Church. I find this an odd contradiction since he routinely translates Holy Days to Sunday and allows for a substitute Penance on Fridays (choosing something other than abstaining from meat), both of which are exceptions to the universal norms of the Church.
 
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