Standing during consecration at local monastary...?

[sabriner]

I’ve been attending Mass at a local (Discalced) Carmelite Monastary. Neither the congregation nor the nuns kneel at all during Mass.

I usually kneel… though I’m also usually the only one… not out of rebellion or anything, it’s just how I was taught…

I just read a post here mentioning this practice, that it happens because “This is a posture that is reserved only for some monasteries and friaries, because it has been their tradition for hundreds of years.”

Does anyone have any more information? Should it be only the nuns standing and everyone else kneel? What is the history behind this?

 

[AJV]

I’ve been attending Mass at a local (Discalced) Carmelite Monastary. Neither the congregation nor the nuns kneel at all during Mass.

I usually kneel… though I’m also usually the only one… not out of rebellion or anything, it’s just how I was taught…

I just read a post here mentioning this practice, that it happens because “This is a posture that is reserved only for some monasteries and friaries, because it has been their tradition for hundreds of years.”

Does anyone have any more information? Should it be only the nuns standing and everyone else kneel? What is the history behind this?

The monasteries and friaries do have special customs. However at no time in the past 1000 years has it EVER been that during the Institution they do not kneel or prostrate.

In recent years, many monasteries and religious houses , where Mass is not customarily attended by laypeople, have invoked the “custom” idea to justify all such abuses such as not wearing the proper vestments at daily Mass, self-communicating (on the basis of eliminating distinctions between the ordained and lay members of the congregation/order at Mass), not observing the customary postures, use of other texts, the non-ordained doing things they shouldn’t on the claim of fraternity, etc.

This actually does not come under the custom clause, or under the special privileges of monasteries. On most of these matters, the requisite permission is NOT upto the superior/major superior/abbot but upto the Holy See. The Holy See has never granted permission for such things as is clear from the decrees and responses of the CDW that have been published both in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis (now online!) and in Notitiae. Even for the monasteries, where the CDW has confirmed various peculiarities in the order of the Mass (see Notitiae from 1970 to 1990 for treatment on various Benedictines, the Cistericans, Carmelites, Dominicans, etc.) there are never been permission given for all the brothers/sisters to stand during the Institution (although there are places where profound bows are mentioned and they are listed in the above decrees)

Equally from Notitiae, other “customs” such as self-communicating have been reprobated and so even IF they are customs in the sense of canon law, they are to be removed.

However, depending on the architecture of the place, kneeling might be drawing undue attention to yourself. I would suggest that instead you stand respectfully and genuflect at the elevations, approx. when the priest does.

 

[Cat]

Is there any possibility that the nuns don’t kneel because some or many of the sisters are elderly or disabled and unable to kneel, and out of kindness and respect for these sisters and the desire to demonstrate unity and express empathy with their physical limitations, the entire community does not kneel?

I know that some Catholics scoff at unity and claim that a show of reverence is more important than a show of unity, but remember, in his prayer for believers, Jesus didn’t pray that they might remain “reverent,” but rather, that they remain “one.”

 

[bmadamsberry]

Is there any possibility that the nuns don’t kneel because some or many of the sisters are elderly or disabled and unable to kneel, and out of kindness and respect for these sisters and the desire to demonstrate unity and express empathy with their physical limitations, the entire community does not kneel?

I know that some Catholics scoff at unity and claim that a show of reverence is more important than a show of unity, but remember, in his prayer for believers, Jesus didn’t pray that they might remain “reverent,” but rather, that they remain “one.”

That’s what I was thinking.

 

[daughterofeve]

it’s just how I was taught…

As was I, by very holy Priests and Sisters, whom taught the infallible teachings of the Church (which is the ultimate authority and custodian of the Mass).

the requisite permission is NOT upto the superior/major superior/abbot but upto the Holy See. The Holy See has never granted permission for such things…

I know that some Catholics scoff at unity and claim that a show of reverence is more important than a show of unity, but remember, in his prayer for believers, Jesus didn’t pray that they might remain “reverent,” but rather, that they remain “one.”

I am certain He did not intend that they remain “One” in disobedience.

What is wrong is still wrong even when everyone is doing it, what is right is still right even when no one is doing it…Fulton J. Sheen

Do you think that since the Apostles were there when He expressed that Mary had chosen best to reverence Him before all else, that it was understood that the “One” would be reverent first?

The Glory of God comes second to nothing…

not out of rebellion or anything,

Should my kneeling in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament offend so much as the Bishop, so be it, as long as I knelt for the reverence and not to scandalize the Bishop. I would kneel in as inconspicuous a place as possible, but me and mine would do so.

I am certain this monastery has their reasons for these practices, I would ask respectfully concerning this and enquire if your kneeling offends them. You are questioning this for a reason, maybe attending Mass elsewhere, your parish perhaps would be the preferred choice.

With God’s graces…

 

[sabriner]

I am certain this monastery has their reasons for these practices, I would ask respectfully concerning this and enquire if your kneeling offends them. You are questioning this for a reason, maybe attending Mass elsewhere, your parish perhaps would be the preferred choice.

With God’s graces…

daughterofeve, you make good points, and they are along the lines of what i was also thinking.

I don’t think anybody in the monastary is offended by my kneeling. No one has said anything, and they do treat me very kindly, but I will ask (I’m still curious about why most stand). Though really, I don’t really see why anyone would be offended by kneeling

 

[francis24]

there is nothing wrong if you stand or kneel what there are no place to kneel? obviously you stand to honor our king