Standing during Lords Prayer

[Silver_Thread]

I attended the TLM for eight years and we did not stand during the Lords Prayer. Now we have the TLM in a local Church and the Red Books printed by The Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei has instructions for the laity to stand. Is this in the 1962 Missal or did the Coalition just add it? I use a 1954 translation and the sit stand instructions do not list the Pater Noster!:

 

[malphono]

I attended the TLM for eight years and we did not stand during the Lords Prayer. Now we have the TLM in a local Church and the Red Books printed by The Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei has instructions for the laity to stand. Is this in the 1962 Missal or did the Coalition just add it? I use a 1954 translation and the sit stand instructions do not list the Pater Noster!:

The standard for “High Mass” (both Missa Cantata and Missa Solemnis) is to stand for the Pater Noster. Look closely at the “red book” and I think you’ll see what I mean. At “Low Mass” (both Missa Lecta and Missa Recitata), the standard is to remain kneeling.

 

[Silver_Thread]

The Red Book is not an “official” book of the Church. What does the 1962 Missal say?

 

[St_Stoli]

The standard for “High Mass” (both Missa Cantata and Missa Solemnis) is to stand for the Pater Noster. Look closely at the “red book” and I think you’ll see what I mean. At “Low Mass” (both Missa Lecta and Missa Recitata), the standard is to remain kneeling.

The Red Book is not an “official” book of the Church. What does the 1962 Missal say?

Malphono is correct. The missals for adults don’t typically show the mass postures for the laity, but “High Mass” is done standing, and “Low Mass” the people remain kneeling.

I attend the mass in Latin regularly, and my friends and I all use different missals out of personal preference. None list mass postures for laity. I have a feeling that the missals printed for children may, but I’ve never seen one.

The red booklets are printed correctly.

 

[R_C]

The Red Book is not an “official” book of the Church. What does the 1962 Missal say?

Let’s check

The Rubricae Generales have a section X - De or dine genuflectendi, sedendi et standi in Missa. However, this section says nothing about the congregation.

Further research led to this:

Contrary to common assumption, there are no written norms or rubrics specifying posture of the people at a Tridentine high Mass (or Missa Cantata). But a common rule of thumb is to “stand or kneel when the altar boys do”. More specifically, the following instructions for high Mass are printed in the red missalettes that we use and are followed throughout the country:

· STAND for the Gloria and the Credo, but SIT when the priest does.
· STAND for the Preface (and the dialogue preceding it)
· KNEEL for the Canon.
· STAND for the Pater Noster.

The Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem have a useful 21-page essay on their website:

Understanding when to Kneel, Sit and Stand at a Traditional Latin Mass

In short:

• There were no officially prescribed rubrics on Mass postures for the laity

Unlike in the Ordinary Form of the Mass where people’s Mass postures and gestures are specifically prescribed in the General Instructions of the Roman Missal, prior to 1970 there was only one rubric that has ever stated what the laity were to do at Mass, and that was to kneel at a Low Mass, except during the Gospel, and say nothing, even in Eastertide. [This rubric was] not preceptive but merely directive, meaning the people were under no obligation to strictly follow it.

• People are supposed to follow the postures of the clergy in choir

Fortescue says that for Solemn or Sung Mass the 1961 General Rubrics give no rules for the laity present either. They are supposed to take an active part in the ceremony with the sacred ministers and clergy, and so the rubrics assume that, as far as possible, the laity will conform to the rules laid down for the clergy when they are present in choir.

This essay has a critique of the postures in the Red Book. Their final recommendation is for the congregation to stand during the Pater Noster in both Low and High Mass (including Requiem Mass).

 

[ProVobis]

FWIW, the servers back in the 50’s were instructed to stand whenever the priest sings, except the Epistle. Otherwise, kneel. (Of course in the EF, the servers sit only during the sermon or when the priest sits during long choir singing such as the Creed, Gloria, etc.)

 

[John_Q_Sinner]

In the EF I attend we stand for the Pater during a High Mass and kneel during a Low Mass. And at the Preface we sit during a Low Mass and stand during a High Mass.

Here is a guide for when to sit, stand, and kneel during the EF:

baroniuspress.com/sample_pages/Daily%20Missal%201962%20-%20A%20guide%20to%20when%20to%20sit,%20stand%20and%20kneel.pdf