Standing during the Consecration

[St_Francis]

I am upset because the pastor recently started telling us that we must stand for the Consecration. He has already made it Perfectly Clear that he doesn’t welcome any questions about anything that he does.

He seems to be quite popular with the bishop, who also has not said anything about it.

The problem is that the next-nearest Mass is so far away that it is even more difficult for us to get to (living in the rural South presents some problems for Catholics ). Sometimes I can either get to this Mass or no Mass at all,but since it is along way away, I feel very upset about this situation by the time I arrive.

I just don’t want my children exposed to this casual attitude towards the Eucharist (the other church is much better). There are other problems, but this one is the worst,and it just makes me feel sick that he is “teaching” that our comfort comes before reverence to Our Lord.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am upset because the pastor recently started telling us that we must stand for the Consecration. He has already made it Perfectly Clear that he doesn’t welcome any questions about anything that he does.

He seems to be quite popular with the bishop, who also has not said anything about it.

The problem is that the next-nearest Mass is so far away that it is even more difficult for us to get to (living in the rural South presents some problems for Catholics ). Sometimes I can either get to this Mass or no Mass at all,but since it is along way away, I feel very upset about this situation by the time I arrive.

I just don’t want my children exposed to this casual attitude towards the Eucharist (the other church is much better). There are other problems, but this one is the worst,and it just makes me feel sick that he is “teaching” that our comfort comes before reverence to Our Lord.

I would just tell him if he asks that you love him but must follow the instruction of the Church (the GIRM) on these liturgical matters.

 

[St_Francis]

I would just tell him if he asks that you love him but must follow the instruction of the Church (the GIRM) on these liturgical matters.

Thanks so much, Brother Rich. If I may ask, what can I do about my emotional state? It is hard for me to explain how I feel, but I feel almost physically ill. Part of the problem is that he explains that we have to do all this other stuff (standing through the Agnus Dei until everyone has received Communion) to be in line with the GIRM. So I’m listening to all that and then to hear him say the other—to me it’s like lying in church! I feel like I can’t breathe. I don’t even like to think about it because I feel bad when I think about it. Just the thought of the whole thing repels me so much.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Thanks so much, Brother Rich. If I may ask, what can I do about my emotional state? It is hard for me to explain how I feel, but I feel almost physically ill. Part of the problem is that he explains that we have to do all this other stuff (standing through the Agnus Dei until everyone has received Communion) to be in line with the GIRM. So I’m listening to all that and then to hear him say the other—to me it’s like lying in church! I feel like I can’t breathe. I don’t even like to think about it because I feel bad when I think about it. Just the thought of the whole thing repels me so much.

Remember the saying “It does not matter what anyone thinks of you or what you do, only what Christ thinks.”

He almost got that right. The Bishop can decide that in his diocese everyone will remain standing after the Lamb of God. However upon returning to their seat after receiving Holy Communion they may sit. stand or kneel as they wish. No one can dictate their posture after returning to their seat, it’s totally up to the individual.

 

[St_Francis]

Remember the saying “It does not matter what anyone thinks of you or what you do, only what Christ thinks.”

He almost got that right. The Bishop can decide that in his diocese everyone will remain standing after the Lamb of God. However upon returning to their seat after receiving Holy Communion they may sit. stand or kneel as they wish. No one can dictate their posture after returning to their seat, it’s totally up to the individual.

I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear about my problem: it’s the fact that I feel so crazy while I’m there. We have continued to kneel and I had all the information in case he spoke to me about it, (altho your short answer is much better!), but I feel seriously torn up inside.

Thanks for your patience!

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

The universal posture during the Consecration is kneeling, unless it is physically impractical (i.e. broken glass on the floor ), which is obviously not the case since you had been kneeling until now. Kneeling after the Agnus Dei is an option which the Bishop can decide, but during the Consecration, kneeling is the norm in every diocese worldwide. He cannot force you to remain standing, and if he publically harasses you on this, take it to the bishop. Perhaps obtaining a copy of the relevant GIRM section and showing him may help. I know what it is like when there are no parishes to flee to, so your “cross” in this matter may be simply to continue with this parish and hold your pastor in prayer. Charity is above all things, so please treat him accordingly. You will receive your reward some day for your acts of kindness in the face of this sort of adversity. I’ll keep you and your pastor in my prayers.

 

[palmas85]

The universal posture during the Consecration is kneeling, unless it is physically impractical (i.e. broken glass on the floor ), which is obviously not the case since you had been kneeling until now. Kneeling after the Agnus Dei is an option which the Bishop can decide, but during the Consecration, kneeling is the norm in every diocese worldwide. He cannot force you to remain standing, and if he publically harasses you on this, take it to the bishop. Perhaps obtaining a copy of the relevant GIRM section and showing him may help. I know what it is like when there are no parishes to flee to, so your “cross” in this matter may be simply to continue with this parish and hold your pastor in prayer. Charity is above all things, so please treat him accordingly. You will receive your reward some day for your acts of kindness in the face of this sort of adversity. I’ll keep you and your pastor in my prayers.

In the Diocese of Los Angeles they do not kneel during the consecration and at least several churches here in San Diego they don’t either. I don’t know for sure if Cardinal Mahoney has made a pronouncement that all will remain standing in Los Angleles but it does appear so.

The reason for this is that standing is the resurrection posture and better reflects the glory of the risen Lord. At least that is how it was explained to me.

It is also permitted not to kneel when there is no room to do so.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

To my knowledge, no bishop has the authority to change this posture without approval from Rome.

 

[palmas85]

To my knowledge, no bishop has the authority to change this posture without approval from Rome.

Well apparently he either has the permission or doesn’t care.

 

[SORROWS]

In this instance, I would do what my heart tells me. I could never stand during consecration due to the solemnity of the sacrifice of Our Lord. Every knee should bend (undless physically unable).

 

[Digitonomy]

It is also permitted not to kneel when there is no room to do so.

I have not seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but if the congregation stands during the consecration, the faithful must bow at the points when the celebrant genuflects.

 

[palmas85]

In this instance, I would do what my heart tells me. I could never stand during consecration due to the solemnity of the sacrifice of Our Lord. Every knee should bend (undless physically unable).

I cannot recall the name of the Parish, but it was either in Orange County or Riverside county here in California… A new Pastor came in and with the full support of the Bishop apparently commanded that all would stand during the consecration. A group refused and followed their conscience and knelt. The pastor again with the support of the Bishop allegedly attempted to have them removed from the Church and actually threatened them with excommunication for their disobedience.

This incident occured several months ago and was quite rabidly discussed on this forum and others. It made national news. The eventual outcome, I don’t know. There is definitely an agenda in this business of not kneeling, and while localized, it does appear to be spreading, relentlessly…

Remember, all heresies and apostasies started at the local level and spread out.

 

[palmas85]

I have not seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but if the congregation stands during the consecration, the faithful must bow at the points when the celebrant genuflects.

Quite correct.

 

[Digitonomy]

Remember, all heresies and apostasies started at the local level and spread out.

This would be neither heresy nor apostasy, merely disobedience.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

“kneeling is the norm in every diocese worldwide” not exactly kneeling is the norm in every diocese in the United States.

 

[St_Francis]

I cannot recall the name of the Parish, but it was either in Orange County or Riverside county here in California… A new Pastor came in and with the full support of the Bishop apparently commanded that all would stand during the consecration. A group refused and followed their conscience and knelt. The pastor again with the support of the Bishop allegedly attempted to have them removed from the Church and actually threatened them with excommunication for their disobedience.

From what I read about this case, the bishop had mandated that people would stand through the Agnus Dei, and these people wanted to kneel. The Agnus Dei is separate from the Consecration, which ends at the Amen just before the Our Father.

The bishop is allowed, according to the GIRM, to do this.

 

[St_Francis]

I have not seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but if the congregation stands during the consecration, the faithful must bow at the points when the celebrant genuflects.

Yes, and the congregation is not even directed to do that. They don’t know that he is not supposed to tell them not to kneel, and they don’t know that if the extraordinary conditions which would permit not kneeling exist, that they are supposed to bow at those points.

Because altho he makes this big announcement about what everyone is supposed to do, he leaves this out.

 

[G_S]

I have not seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but if the congregation stands during the consecration, the faithful must bow at the points when the celebrant genuflects.

Actually, the congregation DOEs NOT stand – at least not in this country. The bishop cannot change this and the recent documents say that the faithful may write directly to the Sacred Cangregation in Rome to report abuses.

 

[Corki]

“kneeling is the norm in every diocese worldwide” not exactly kneeling is the norm in every diocese in the United States.

Kneeling during the consecration is the universal norm - worldwide. It is possible that some other country has a particular national version that permits a different posture in the same way that the US has a version that say to remain kneeling until after the Great Amen.

 

[Digitonomy]

Digitonomy:

I have not seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but if the congregation stands during the consecration, the faithful must bow at the points when the celebrant genuflects.

Actually, the congregation DOEs NOT stand – at least not in this country. The bishop cannot change this and the recent documents say that the faithful may write directly to the Sacred Cangregation in Rome to report abuses.

Time to trot out the relevant GIRM paragraph again:

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.