Standing on the Pews or kneelers in dirty boots

[lizaanne]

The church is not just for perfect people like yourself; …

I beg your pardon? I thought we were to be charitable on this forum. I have an opinion (which was asked for by the OP) and now I’m being called “perfect” in some snide and nasty way?

Never once did I point a finger directly at any one person or make personal assessment of their piety. Who did that in this discussion? You may wish to review the previous posts.

Now who needs to mind their focus??

~Liza

 

[samcarter14]

I beg your pardon? I thought we were to be charitable on this forum. I have an opinion (which was asked for by the OP) and now I’m being called “perfect” in some snide and nasty way?

Never once did I point a finger directly at any one person or make personal assessment of their piety. Who did that in this discussion? You may wish to review the previous posts.

Now who needs to mind their focus??

~Liza

Didn’t you say you focus perfectly fine at Mass and didn’t need any lectures on what to focus on during Lent? Most of us fallible people could use some advice on that issue. So I guess I just assumed that you were perfect in your Lenten observances and prayer life. Sorry for making that assumption. Have a blessed Lent.

 

[yellowbird]

I let my 3 year old stand on the kneeler… if it keeps her quiet and paying attention for a few minutes, ahhhh… I am blessed! After reading this thread through, I will be MUCH more mindful of her not doing so with wet/muddy shoes. I would not like it if I kneeled down and my pants got all soiled.

If I noticed someone else’s child standing on a kneeler in dirty boots I would not say a word. What if his parent hadn’t been to mass in years and the Holy Spirt touched his Mom’s heart and that very morning was the first time she brought her child, wet boots and all?

There are some things I might speak up about. This wouldn’t be one of them.

 

[Jennifer_J]

I agree with Lizaanne.They are kneelers, not a step stool! I never let my child stand on them. As far as them being short & can’t see, that is not the most important thing. What’s to see? They should be *listening *. Many, many occasions I have someone tall/big or with a big hat on, sitting in front of me & I can’t see. I just listen! I get more out of the homily usually & I don’t stand on the kneelers, either

You don’t have children, do you? Ever tried to get a 2-4 year old to just “listen”? Impossible for long periods of time. The Mass is a VISUAL process and part of distracting a child is to have them WATCH what’s going on. If WATCHING wasn’t important, then the Priest wouldn’t ELEVATE Jesus. Sheesh. Some of you are just nitpicking, nitpicking, nitpicking…do you have everything in your lives solved that THIS is important to you? I put my feet up on the kneelers when seated as well, because I have back and tailbone issues and sitting still, stock upright is VERY painful if I don’t elevate my feet. As far as I know this isn’t covered in any Church document and probably not even by Miss Manners. Kneelers aren’t furniture. They are kneelers.

I wish they would yank all the pews and kneelers out and then we would stand and kneel on the floor throughout Mass. That’s how it was done for centuries. I think we are SPOILED, even having kneelers. And I’m being completely serious. We have seating in our old choir loft that has no kneelers. When we sit there, we kneel…on the FLOOR—where FEET are located, isn’t that amazing? Is it okay for my children to stand on the floor, where we have to kneel later?

 

[samcarter14]

You don’t have children, do you? Ever tried to get a 2-4 year old to just “listen”? Impossible for long periods of time. The Mass is a VISUAL process and part of distracting a child is to have them WATCH what’s going on. If WATCHING wasn’t important, then the Priest wouldn’t ELEVATE Jesus. Sheesh. Some of you are just nitpicking, nitpicking, nitpicking…do you have everything in your lives solved that THIS is important to you? I put my feet up on the kneelers when seated as well, because I have back and tailbone issues and sitting still, stock upright is VERY painful if I don’t elevate my feet. As far as I know this isn’t covered in any Church document and probably not even by Miss Manners. Kneelers aren’t furniture. They are kneelers.

I wish they would yank all the pews and kneelers out and then we would stand and kneel on the floor throughout Mass. That’s how it was done for centuries. I think we are SPOILED, even having kneelers. And I’m being completely serious. We have seating in our old choir loft that has no kneelers. When we sit there, we kneel…on the FLOOR—where FEET are located, isn’t that amazing? Is it okay for my children to stand on the floor, where we have to kneel later?

Of course they may stand on the floor, provided you have throughly wiped off their shoes with a sanitizing wipe, or, alternately, you may let them sit on your shoulders so they do not sully the floor with their shoes.



Back when we were worshipping at a Roman Catholic church, we attended a parish where they had yanked out all the kneelers but nobody knelt at all. My MIL was horrified, and she and my FIL knelt on the floor during the appropriate times. Good for them.

 

[yellowbird]

“sully the floor…”



I have no idea why that phrase makes me laugh but it does! “HEY! Look at this mess… which one of you sullied my floor?!” That is so funny. I’m going to start using it!

 

[lizaanne]

Some of you are just nitpicking, nitpicking, nitpicking…do you have everything in your lives solved that THIS is important to you?

I was asked for my opinion by the OP and I gave it, and some have agreed with me. I fail to see how it is appropriate for this to have become a personal attack against someone who has an opinion.

Not once have I made this personal toward anyone on this thread, never pointed anyone out, never made direct accusations or snide comments about anyone about how they worship or how pious or perfect they may or may not be. Yet here we are.

How very sad and pitiful.

~Liza

 

[Lucania]

You don’t have children, do you? Ever tried to get a 2-4 year old to just “listen”? Impossible for long periods of time. The Mass is a VISUAL process and part of distracting a child is to have them WATCH what’s going on. If WATCHING wasn’t important, then the Priest wouldn’t ELEVATE Jesus. Sheesh. Some of you are just nitpicking, nitpicking, nitpicking…do you have everything in your lives solved that THIS is important to you? I put my feet up on the kneelers when seated as well, because I have back and tailbone issues and sitting still, stock upright is VERY painful if I don’t elevate my feet. As far as I know this isn’t covered in any Church document and probably not even by Miss Manners. Kneelers aren’t furniture. They are kneelers.

I wish they would yank all the pews and kneelers out and then we would stand and kneel on the floor throughout Mass. That’s how it was done for centuries. I think we are SPOILED, even having kneelers. And I’m being completely serious. We have seating in our old choir loft that has no kneelers. When we sit there, we kneel…on the FLOOR—where FEET are located, isn’t that amazing? Is it okay for my children to stand on the floor, where we have to kneel later?

Wow. You are taking this thread way too seriously. First of all, yes I have a child (if you would have read my post you would have known that) I merely gave my opinion to the topic. We don’t agree & you are somehow offended & get indignant and tell me that I am nitpicking & have nothing to worry about other than this topic of people standing on Kneelers in my life? How did you arrive at that? Never mind. It’s plain that you just assumed that. Lighten up. Really. I could care less if you and your whole family did the Electric Slide across the kneelers. I think I’ll go over to the Politics 2009 section where it’s alot more friendly .

 

[Jennifer_J]

Wait a minute! Wait just a minute!!

What ever happened to NOT PUTTING YOUR FEET ON THE FURNITURE!!!???

Would these parents allow their children to go to someone’s home and stand on their couch with muddy feet?

Honestly - people need to learn some respect and then teach it to their children. Ohhhh, so they can’t see? Well, pick them up, sit in the front row if it is that crucial, or figure something else out, but don’t let them stand on the Church’s furniture!!! I should not have to kneel down in slush and dirt on an upholstered kneeler because someone didn’t keep their dirty feet on the floor.

Buy doormats? Bring wipes? Gracious me - what ever happened to manners.

Grrrrrrrrrr — can ya tell this is a MAJOR pet peeve for me?

~Liza

I’m sorry, but this is the kindness that you displayed to those of us who allow our children to stand on the kneelers. We are mannerless oafs that lack respect. Yeah…real nice.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Wow. You are taking this thread way too seriously. First of all, yes I have a child (if you would have read my post you would have known that) I merely gave my opinion to the topic. We don’t agree & you are somehow offended & get indignant and tell me that I am nitpicking & have nothing to worry about other than this topic of people standing on Kneelers in my life? How did you arrive at that? Never mind. It’s plain that you just assumed that. Lighten up. Really. I could care less if you and your whole family did the Electric Slide across the kneelers. I think I’ll go over to the Politics 2009 section where it’s alot more friendly .

I did misread where you said you had a child, easy mistake and I do apologize. But one child is different than 2-more, honestly, it is.
That being said, no, those who choose to tell us that people who put feet on kneelers don’t have manners and are rude, are taking this too seriously. I’m not offended nor upset nor emtionally attached to kneelers, I’m just surprised that we, as Catholics, don’t have more important things to worry about while we are at Mass. Honestly, in my 10+ years of being Catholic, this has never occured to me to be a problem, messy boots or not! A kneeler is not a couch, it’s not the pew, it’s not the alter. We should try to keep them clean and wipe our feet, but a rule about standing on them? Approaching people before or after Mass to tell them they are rude? Wowsers.

 

[MooCowSteph]

It’s never once occured to me that it would be inappropriate to place one’s feet on the kneelers, nor am I convinced that it is actually inappropriate. My 3 year old stands on them all the time, and I usually put my feel on them while sitting. I’m short and it’s much more comfortable to hold a baby on my lap when I can elevate my feet.

I’ve never once seen mud or dirt on the kneeler, but if there were mud on any of our shoes, I would attempt to wipe them first. But perhaps it would be a good idea to keep a travel pack of baby wipes in your pocket or purse just in case. They are 79 cents in the tracel items section in Target.

 

[MooCowSteph]

I did misread where you said you had a child, easy mistake and I do apologize. But one child is different than 2-more, honestly, it is.
That being said, no, those who choose to tell us that people who put feet on kneelers don’t have manners and are rude, are taking this too seriously. I’m not offended nor upset nor emtionally attached to kneelers, I’m just surprised that we, as Catholics, don’t have more important things to worry about while we are at Mass. Honestly, in my 10+ years of being Catholic, this has never occured to me to be a problem, messy boots or not! A kneeler is not a couch, it’s not the pew, it’s not the alter. We should try to keep them clean and wipe our feet, but a rule about standing on them? Approaching people before or after Mass to tell them they are rude? Wowsers.

Gotta agree with ya here

 

[Melissa]

A kneeler is not a couch, it’s not the pew, it’s not the altar. We should try to keep them clean and wipe our feet, but a rule about standing on them? Approaching people before or after Mass to tell them they are rude?

Well, maybe it would help if people mentioned just what sort of kneelers we were dealing with, because I can tell you for certain that I have NEVER allowed my children to stand on the kneelers at my parish, and I’d consider it not only rude but horribly destructive to allow someone to put wet/muddy shoes/boots upon the kneeler. But then, our kneelers are lightly padded and have a burlap-like fabric covering. So, put wet boots or shoes on this and not only do you affect everyone attending a later Mass than the one you were attending, but you’re also going to cause mold to set in. This means spending money far sooner than anticipated in fixing (or replacing) the damages. Floor coverings are designed to withstand what people track in (although quite frankly, feet wiping is also an exercise in self-preservation, as marble floor and wet shoes are not a good mix).

Now, if the kneelers are unpadded or have a covering that is more suitable to wiping (like a vinyl that looks like leather), that’s something else, but the kneelers in my parish have more in common with an upholstered couch than the pew does (which isn’t padded or covered–just plain wood).

It’s probably also worth mentioning that not everything that people may run their feet through will necessarily clean out of all garments, and I’ve had to throw out clothing that was ruined (too stained to wear to Mass, fabric not suitable for casual activity) because I couldn’t tell before it was too late that the kneeler was wet from a previous Mass.

 

[psr13]

You don’t have children, do you? Ever tried to get a 2-4 year old to just “listen”? Impossible for long periods of time. The Mass is a VISUAL process and part of distracting a child is to have them WATCH what’s going on. If WATCHING wasn’t important, then the Priest wouldn’t ELEVATE Jesus. Sheesh. Some of you are just nitpicking, nitpicking, nitpicking…do you have everything in your lives solved that THIS is important to you? I put my feet up on the kneelers when seated as well, because I have back and tailbone issues and sitting still, stock upright is VERY painful if I don’t elevate my feet. As far as I know this isn’t covered in any Church document and probably not even by Miss Manners. Kneelers aren’t furniture. They are kneelers.

I wish they would yank all the pews and kneelers out and then we would stand and kneel on the floor throughout Mass. That’s how it was done for centuries. I think we are SPOILED, even having kneelers. And I’m being completely serious. We have seating in our old choir loft that has no kneelers. When we sit there, we kneel…on the FLOOR—where FEET are located, isn’t that amazing? Is it okay for my children to stand on the floor, where we have to kneel later?

When I go to the EF there is one family that has five walking kids and one infant. They sit in the second row. This is probably the reason why. They don’t stand on the kneelers, and their children do focus on the Mass. This is what I see with all of the young kids there.

 

[Phemie]

Well, maybe it would help if people mentioned just what sort of kneelers we were dealing with, because I can tell you for certain that I have NEVER allowed my children to stand on the kneelers at my parish, and I’d consider it not only rude but horribly destructive to allow someone to put wet/muddy shoes/boots upon the kneeler. But then, our kneelers are lightly padded and have a burlap-like fabric covering. So, put wet boots or shoes on this and not only do you affect everyone attending a later Mass than the one you were attending, but you’re also going to cause mold to set in.

Well that may certainly explain our reactions to this thread. Up until my mid teens the kneelers in my church were plain, unvarnished wood. Every padded kneeler I’ve experienced since has been “leatherette” or vinyl, easily wiped clean. I don’t recall ever seeing a fabric covered kneeler, not even in the local Base Chapel where the pews are covered in 2" ‘velvet’ cushions.

 

[kage_ar]

Well that may certainly explain our reactions to this thread. Up until my mid teens the kneelers in my church were plain, unvarnished wood. Every padded kneeler I’ve experienced since has been “leatherette” or vinyl, easily wiped clean. I don’t recall ever seeing a fabric covered kneeler, not even in the local Base Chapel where the pews are covered in 2" ‘velvet’ cushions.

The only fabric covered kneelers we have are those up in the Sanctuary for the Altar Servers and those in the Adoration Chapel. In the Parish, they are vinyl.

Maybe that is the key - have a fund raiser to recover your kneelers in something that is durable and easily cleaned.

 

[SMHW]

I’ve always thought that kneelers made of cloth material were a bad idea for this very reason.

The fact of the matter is that people DO put their feet on the kneelers whether it’s rude or not. Often it’s not done consciously. People just put there feet up on things because it’s healthier for legs to be elevated and it’s natural for young children to climb on anything that enables them to see better.

 

[Jennifer_J]

When I go to the EF there is one family that has five walking kids and one infant. They sit in the second row. This is probably the reason why. They don’t stand on the kneelers, and their children do focus on the Mass. This is what I see with all of the young kids there.

There are only so many front row pews in a Church. There is a mild competition among our parish families to get those front rows and if you are a bit late (and by late I mean 5-10 min before Mass), forget about it

If we had cloth kneelers I would beg to have them changed and when they laughted at me, then I’d bring something to cover them in the winter for our pew, lol. Every church pew kneeler I’ve ever seen has that leatherette covering–easy to wipe and clean, very durable.

 

[Lujack]

Wow. I am just floored that people think it is perfectly acceptable to put dirty shoes (show me any shoes are are not dirty) on kneelers where people have to kneel in good clothing.

Amazing.

~Liza

For a good portion of the Mass-going populace, that’s just what you do. Nobody’s ever thought about; I’d wager most people put their dirty shoes on the kneeler, and then kneel their in their own good clothes (at least, my nice khakis go exactly where my feet were).

I’d stop now if I hadn’t looked around during the Gospel last week and noticed that all the kneelers were down, and feet were resting comfortably on them the entire length of the pew. If the whole church is putting their feet there, they obviously don’t have a problem with kneeling where their feet used to be.

 

[psr13]

There are only so many front row pews in a Church. There is a mild competition among our parish families to get those front rows and if you are a bit late (and by late I mean 5-10 min before Mass), forget about it

If we had cloth kneelers I would beg to have them changed and when they laughted at me, then I’d bring something to cover them in the winter for our pew, lol. Every church pew kneeler I’ve ever seen has that leatherette covering–easy to wipe and clean, very durable.

Even the kids who sit in the back don’t stand on the kneelers. I just used that family as an example since it has a good number of kids. Around here the front at the OF is the last part to fill up.