Standing the norm in the US

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So, I recently spent a week in Las Vegas, attending daily Mass at the Guardian Angel Cathedral on the Strip. Comments about the cathedral’s aesthetics aside, they made a point of explaining certain rubrics about the Mass beforehand. They started with the adjustments made to protect against the H1N1 virus - no handshake at the sign of peace, Communion only in the hand - but then went on to say that in the diocese’ of the US, it is the norm to receive Communion while standing, and that the parishoners are not to kneel or genuflect beforehand, but only bow their head.

I’ve heard before that this is the norm here in the States, but I’ve seen and witnessed so many parishes where the priests don’t mind or even seem pleased to see people kneeling for Communion that I never really took it to heart.

Because it’s the norm, does that mean it’s wrong to receive while kneeling? When, how, and why on earth did it become the norm here? Is that part of the abuses of Vatican II, some attempt to stamp out the memory of the Tridentine a little more? And is there some way to see about ammending that, so that kneeling is accepted again?
 
FanChan said:
So, I recently spent a week in Las Vegas, attending daily Mass at the Guardian Angel Cathedral on the Strip. Comments about the cathedral’s aesthetics aside, they made a point of explaining certain rubrics about the Mass beforehand. They started with the adjustments made to protect against the H1N1 virus - no handshake at the sign of peace, Communion only in the hand - but then went on to say that in the diocese’ of the US, it is the norm to receive Communion while standing, and that the parishoners are not to kneel or genuflect beforehand, but only bow their head.

I’ve heard before that this is the norm here in the States, but I’ve seen and witnessed so many parishes where the priests don’t mind or even seem pleased to see people kneeling for Communion that I never really took it to heart.

Because it’s the norm, does that mean it’s wrong to receive while kneeling? When, how, and why on earth did it become the norm here? Is that part of the abuses of Vatican II, some attempt to stamp out the memory of the Tridentine a little more? And is there some way to see about ammending that, so that kneeling is accepted again?
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…in my opinion, it’s a non-issue… I suggest “when in Rome”… and move on:thumbsup:
 
Spiritoftruth said:
…in my opinion, it’s a non-issue… I suggest “when in Rome”… and move on:thumbsup:
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Yes, but my problem is that I don’t feel comfortable receiving Christ in any other way but on my knees, and it’s obviously an accepted way to receive Him within the Church, just not in the US. I’m wondering why, and if that can ever be changed.
 
I attend a large Newman Center parish at a secular university in the Midwest. We are fortunate to have three priests whom I dearly love. The Monsignor who is our pastor wrote in the bulletin and asked us all please not to kneel or genuflect when we come up to receive Communion. He said it makes it difficult for the person behind us. I was in the habit of genuflecting before receiving Communion as I had seen done on EWTN.

ONLY for this very dear pastor would I comply with such a request! And I did. I now no longer genuflect before receiving the Precious Body and Blood of My Lord and God. I feel very bad about this.

Doesn’t it seem strange that we cannot kneel or genuflect when receiving Our Lord, but it is all right to go to Communion in short shorts and spaghetti straps?

What world, what a world . . . 😦
 
Old_Convert said:
The Monsignor who is our pastor wrote in the bulletin and asked us all please not to kneel or genuflect when we come up to receive Communion. He said it makes it difficult for the person behind us.
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At least he gave a reason for it, even if it seems a bit illogical. How does it make it difficult for the person behind them? If they stumble over your feet when you kneel or genuflect, then they’re too close to you as it is. From what I’ve seen, people that do kneel or genuflect do their very best not to take any longer than someone standing. At most, it takes me about a second longer than those standing (I genuflect while receiving since I’m unable to go down on both knees precisely because I know it would take much longer for me to get back up and out of the way).

I don’t know. I’d really like to know how it came to be that standing was the norm in the US. I just can’t fathom a reason good enough for everyone to agree on it and make it the only way ‘allowed’.
 
Can you imagine the apostles after Christ just healed the blind man, “Don’t kneel before Christ! Get up! What are you doing!? We’ve got to catechize you as to the proper posture!!”

It’s utter nonsense.

Rome has said you can’t be denied communion for kneeling. It’s an immemorial custom so it can’t ever be specifically forbidden.

Just kneel.
 
FanChan said:
Yes, but my problem is that I don’t feel comfortable receiving Christ in any other way but on my knees, and it’s obviously an accepted way to receive Him within the Church, just not in the US. I’m wondering why, and if that can ever be changed.
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Feel free to receive that way, if you like. Neither Rome, nor the USCCB has said that you are not allowed to receive kneeling. The USCCB has said you are not to be denied communion for kneeling- but to be instructed as to the reason for the norm (standing). I have received communion kneeling at many parishes. I’ve only been asked not to kneel one time.
 
FanChan said:
Yes, but my problem is that I don’t feel comfortable receiving Christ in any other way but on my knees, and it’s obviously an accepted way to receive Him within the Church, just not in the US. I’m wondering why, and if that can ever be changed.
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No shame in refraining from receiving Communion in what you feel is an irreverent manner. A Spiritual Communion will suffice. 🙂
 
Old_Convert said:
I attend a large Newman Center parish at a secular university in the Midwest. We are fortunate to have three priests whom I dearly love.
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Old_Convert said:
The Monsignor who is our pastor wrote in the bulletin and asked us all please not to kneel or genuflect when we come up to receive Communion. He said it makes it difficult for the person behind us.
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If it makes it difficult for the person behind you, then people are going through the communion line too fast. You’re walking forward to receive the Eucharist- not a bunch of football players running off the field at halftime.
Old_Convert said:
I was in the habit of genuflecting before receiving Communion as I had seen done on EWTN.
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Although I don’t care to watch EWTN’s Masses anymore, they have done a lot to inspire the laity to keep pious practices like that. They do great work for the Church.
Old_Convert said:
ONLY for this very dear pastor would I comply with such a request! And I did. I now no longer genuflect before receiving the Precious Body and Blood of My Lord and God. I feel very bad about this.
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I am sorry for your predicament. I know it is difficult to feel pulled between doing what you think you should do for God, and what a priest you respect wants you to do. The Church allows you to stand to receive communion- so even though you would LIKE to, I don’t think God would fault you for doing so, if you felt doing so would put too much of a strain on your relationship with the priests, and the other members of the Newman center.
Old_Convert said:
Doesn’t it seem strange that we cannot kneel or genuflect when receiving Our Lord, but it is all right to go to Communion in short shorts and spaghetti straps?
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Yes
 
m134e5 said:
Feel free to receive that way, if you like. Neither Rome, nor the USCCB has said that you are not allowed to receive kneeling. The USCCB has said you are not to be denied communion for kneeling- but to be instructed as to the reason for the norm (standing). I have received communion kneeling at many parishes. I’ve only been asked not to kneel one time.
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Isn’t the whole reason for being instructed of the norm so that you don’t do it? They are to presume you are simply ignorant of the matter, and thus not create a scene by instructing you in the Communion line, but then educate you afterwards so you don’t do it again. If you were intsructed not to kneel by a priest, and you found yourself in line to receive from him again, would you stand because he’s told you to? What if the church specifically tells the congregation, as was my experience in Las Vegas, not to genuflect or kneel? It seems to me that in these cases, it would be particularly wrong and disobedient to kneel, since what they’re asking isn’t heretical or what have you.

I’ve received kneeling in dozens of parishes (my parents are in a business that sends them all over the surrounding diocese’, so for a while we were in a different parish every Sunday) and I’ve never been instructed not to kneel, and very often there’s a look of great affection in the priest’s eyes when I kneel in front of them (one of the reasons I’m finding the thought of giving up the practice difficult; if so many priests love to see it, why the heck is it wrong?).

I’d just really like to know how it came to be the norm, why it is that way, and if there’s anything we can do to add kneeling back into it. Maybe I’ll have to have a chat with my bishop about it to figure things out.
 
Old_Convert said:
I attend a large Newman Center parish at a secular university in the Midwest. We are fortunate to have three priests whom I dearly love. The Monsignor who is our pastor wrote in the bulletin and asked us all please not to kneel or genuflect when we come up to receive Communion. He said it makes it difficult for the person behind us. I was in the habit of genuflecting before receiving Communion as I had seen done on EWTN.

What world, what a world . . . 😦
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Don’t fall for the lies about reasons not to kneel.

Kneel in the presence of the Lord!
 
Shin said:
Don’t fall for the lies about reasons not to kneel.

Kneel in the presence of the Lord!
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I don’t think that’s the best attitude to take in this. It became the norm in the US for a reason, and obviously based on the answers in the AAA forum, we’re expected to follow that norm for the NO Mass. We should find out the reasons, then see what we can do to change it (so we can have better arguments than ‘it doesn’t feel right’ or ‘I don’t wanna’).
 
If you think that norms like this established by a Conference are always good for the Church, you don’t understand how the Devil works. 🙂

Everyone should be kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament.

The true tradition and true historical and world norm is this.

It is objectively a lie to say people have to kneel because it ‘troubles the line’ or ‘people behind you’.

“We Christians kneel before the Blessed Sacrament because, therein, we know and believe to be the presence of the One True God.” (May 22, 2008) Pope Benedict XVI

Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum

Prot. n. 47 / 03 / L

Rome, 26 February 2003

Dear [name deleted],

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has received through official channels your letter dated 1 December 2002, related to the application of the norms approved by the Conference of Bishops of the United States of America, with the subsequent recognitio of this Congregation, as regards the question of the posture for receiving Holy Communion.

As the authority by virtue of whose recognitio the norm in question has attained the force of law, this Dicastery is competent to specify the manner in which the norm is to be understood for the sake of a proper application. Having received more than a few letters regarding this matter from different locations in the United States of America, the Congregation wishes to ensure that its position on the matter is clear.

To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received. The letter states: “… while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion”.

This Dicastery hopes that the citation given here will provide an adequate answer to your letter. At the same time, please be assured that the Congregation remains ready to be of assistance if you should need to contact it again.

With every prayerful good wish, I am

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Code: 
Mons. Mario Marini
Undersecretary
 
FanChan said:
Yes, but my problem is that I don’t feel comfortable receiving Christ in any other way but on my knees, and it’s obviously an accepted way to receive Him within the Church, just not in the US. I’m wondering why, and if that can ever be changed.
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Communion is normally received standing in the Eastern Churches, and always has been.

And since usually in the Byzantine Tradition, it is given from a spoon, it would be VERY difficult, if not impossible, to have people receive kneeling in this case.

And, btw, NOBODY seems to worry about H1N1 when receiving Communion from the spoon.
 
Actually, it’s not difficult to receive from a spoon kneeling, any more than standing, this is nonsense too.

The East has an antique liturgy that greatly aids Eucharistic reverence, as compared to the new Western liturgy which is much less reverent in all ways. Even so, the West has had kneeling, and it is the West that was given the great devotion of Eucharistic Adoration. There is no equality. This devotion belongs everywhere. Some things are superior in the West or East some inferior in one or the other, and this is a greatest privilege God can give.

It is obvious that the change from kneeling is and was imposed to directly diminish Eucharistic appreciation and worship, and did so. It most probably was imposed because of the popular theories in the journals that disliked direct Eucharistic Adoration and focused on the community instead, the ‘we are the Eucharist’ type of spirituality. It is obvious the change from kneeling therefor, in the West, was diabolical.

This sort of thing happens in the Church, it is how the devil works to destroy faith. He fails ultimately, but in the individual there is some effect which we see plainly before us.

I remember kneeling once, and having a priest glare at me like Hell itself, and do all he could to force me to stand. He refused me Communion until I did so. His foyer had some popular heretical magazines in it: U.S. Catholic, America.

All should kneel in the West. And East or West, culture does not matter in this, what helps above all else does. The time may come when all should kneel in the East, because it is recognized as the greatest practice.
 
Shin said:
If you think that norms like this established by a Conference are always good for the Church, you don’t understand how the Devil works. 🙂

Everyone should be kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament.

The true tradition and true historical and world norm is this.

It is objectively a lie to say people have to kneel because it ‘troubles the line’ or ‘people behind you’.

“We Christians kneel before the Blessed Sacrament because, therein, we know and believe to be the presence of the One True God.” (May 22, 2008) Pope Benedict XVI

Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum

Prot. n. 47 / 03 / L

Rome, 26 February 2003

Dear [name deleted],

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has received through official channels your letter dated 1 December 2002, related to the application of the norms approved by the Conference of Bishops of the United States of America, with the subsequent recognitio of this Congregation, as regards the question of the posture for receiving Holy Communion.

As the authority by virtue of whose recognitio the norm in question has attained the force of law, this Dicastery is competent to specify the manner in which the norm is to be understood for the sake of a proper application. Having received more than a few letters regarding this matter from different locations in the United States of America, the Congregation wishes to ensure that its position on the matter is clear.

To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received. The letter states: “… while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion”.

This Dicastery hopes that the citation given here will provide an adequate answer to your letter. At the same time, please be assured that the Congregation remains ready to be of assistance if you should need to contact it again.

With every prayerful good wish, I am

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Code: 
Mons. Mario Marini
Undersecretary
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First of all, don’t assume I believe that all changes made by a Congress are good for the Church. That’s insulting, as is the tone of much of what you’ve been saying in your posts, and I humbly ask you to try to hold back on the sharpness of your words for the sake of a useful conversation. Thank-you in advance.

That being said, while the changes may not be for the best, and may in fact be for the worst, that doesn’t mean we should just simply ignore them and that’s that. The loving and obedient thing to do would be to try to make a difference. Just ignoring our leaders won’t change things, we have to confront it. We shouldn’t break away from everyone else because something is wrong, we should try to heal our Church. That is the point I’m trying to make. Just saying the change is evil and foaming at the mouth won’t make things right.

The letter you posted is something I’ve never seen, let alone on these forums, and is perhaps something Michelle Arnold should see if she hasn’t already, so she can stop answering questions like this in the AAA in that we should be standing. If you had simply posted that letter first, and calmly stated that we have permission from higher authorities to kneel, this conversation would have carried on a bit smoother.

It is my belief that until a priest tells you to do something heretical or sacreligious, we are to obey, because he is a priest, someone who is sacrificing his life to bring us Christ. That doesn’t mean we are to roll over and take it, we can still object, just in the correct forums, where it will make a difference. Don’t treat them like they’ve signed a contract with Satan and are trying to drag us all to Hell with them, you have no right to treat them that way, not after all they’ve done for our sakes.
 
Everyone should be kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament.

The true tradition and true historical and world norm is this.

++++++++++++++++

**Only if you think the Latin Church is the world standard.

It never was the practice in Eastern Churches, including Eastern Catholic Churches.**
 
Actually, it’s not difficult to receive from a spoon kneeling, any more than standing, this is nonsense too.
Then you’ve never seen the difficulty sometimes experienced in giving Communion to a standing child, who is about the same height as a kneeling adult.
The East has an antique liturgy that greatly aids Eucharistic reverence, as compared to the new Western liturgy which is much less reverent in all ways.

Nothing antique about it at all. It’s a LIVING Tradition.

Even so, the West has had kneeling, and it is the West that was given the great devotion of Eucharistic Adoration. There is no equality. This devotion belongs everywhere. Some things are superior in the West or East some inferior in one or the other, and this is a greatest privilege God can give.
**Claiming that the Roman rite has some kind of pre-eminence, or the more an Eastern Church resembles the Latin, the more perfect it is is false.

Popes have REPEATEDLY taught that all rites in the Church, and this would include liturgical and devotional practices, are of equal dignity.**
It is obvious that the change from kneeling is and was imposed to directly diminish Eucharistic appreciation and worship, and did so.
No, it’s not obvious. You’re simply assuming this, but it’s not supported by facts.
 
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