Standing up to say the Lord's Prayer

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Okay, so we are supposed to kneel after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until the Great Amen. We kneel because consecration will take place. Why do we stand up to say the Our Father and then kneel down again after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God)? Jesus is still truly present in the Eucharist when we recite the Lord’s Prayer, so shouldn’t we still be kneeling?
 
I do not know the answer, but I want to see what others know, so I’m just placing a post here.
 
Cardinal Ratzinger’s book, The Spirit of the Liturgy, has two great essays – one on kneeling for prayer and one on standing. Kneeling is a sign of penitence and of humility, while standing is a sign of the Resurrection.

OK, it’s more complicated than that but standing for the entire liturgy was the norm all over the Church until feudal custuoms began to be more pervasive in the Western Church.

The Orthodox practically set themselves on fire over the “travesty” of kneeling during the liturgy – except during Lent.

In short: standing is not essentially “unworshipful” or “disrespectful.”
 
sitting at any time (exceptions for those who cannot stand for long times or at all, or cannot kneel) while the Eucharist is out of the tabernacle is disrespectful. standing and kneeling are all good.
 
Mercygate made a very good point in citing Ratzinger’s essays. I think that this gets at the answer.

Remember that in the Canon of the Mass - that is, the part between the Sanctus and the Great Amen - the Sacrifice of Christ is being re-presented to the Father. It is this Sacrifice by which we were freed from our sins. Before the Sacrifice of Christ, humanity was in a servile relationship to God, whereas after the Sacrifice, the relationship is familial - Father to children.

And so as the Canon begins and we praise God with the Angels singing “Holy, Holy, Holy,” we symbolically behave put outselves into that original, servile relationship. We get on our knees as sinners before God and declare His holiness. Just as the people of Jerusalem blessed the Messiah with cries of Hosanna as He entered their midst to offer Himself, we do the same as Christ prepares to enter our midst and offer Himself.

The Sanctus then has two symbolic purposes - or at least two that I am aware of. First, it joins the cries before God of those in Heaven, “Holy Holy Holy,” with the cries of those on earth, “Hosanna in the highest,” to symbolize the meeting of Heaven and earth that is about to occur as the eternal, heavenly Sacrifice of Christ becomes present to us here on earth. Second, it both symbolically and also in a very real sense unites us with the sinful people of Israel as we praise the Messiah entering our midst who is to save us from our sins.

And so we kneel after the Sanctus. We kneel as Christ is made present to us just as all Creation knelt as the child Jesus entered the world at the Nativity. We also kneel before God Almighty, who is present on the altar, and whom we are - at least symbolically at the point in the Liturgy - sinful before.

Then comes the Great Amen. The Great Amen is the ultimate consummation of the Sacrifice. It is when Christ, acting through the priest, offers Himself to the Father, and we offer ourselves and all we have as well “through Him, with Him, and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit.” The Amen is “great” because in it the faithful give their assent to the Sacrifice that has just occured, making it their own. With the Amen, they accept the Sacrifice which has been offered on their behalf and give assent to all of the prayers which have come to this point. They here agree to give themselves and all they have to the Father through Christ. Of course, the Sacrifice and prayers would be accepted by the Father even without the participation of the faithful, but with the great Amen each person accepts that Sacrifice individually.

And so after this, we rise. Symbolically, we are risen from our sins. The Sacrifice has been offered, and we are forgiven. We no longer are trapped in a servile relationship to God, but are now His children, and so we stand and call Him Our Father, and ask Him for our needs. We then exchange the sign of Peace, which symbolizes the communion we now have with each other by virtue of having been brought into the Communion of the Saints. I shake hands with my neighbor after the Great Amen to represent and on a deeper level to live out the fact that, thanks to the Sacrifice that has just occured, we are now brothers in God’s Communion, just as we say “Our Father” after the Sacrifice because this Sacrifice has made us His children.

We then say the Agnus Dei, which is a hymn of praise and thanksgiving to Christ for what He has done for us, for the Sacrifice He has offered. It is also a hymn of petition as we ask Him to continue to grant us mercy and peace.

And then we kneel again, but our kneeling this time is in adoration of the Lamb - even those in Heaven kneel before the Lamb. In the course of the Liturgy, with the Sacrifice having been made and our Communion having been expressed, with our Divine sonship having been lived in our prayer to Our Father, we now kneel as the saints in Heaven do, in adoration of the Lamb and in thanksgiving.

And as the saints in Heaven do, we then partake of Communion with God Himself.
 
Cardinal Ratzinger’s book, The Spirit of the Liturgy, has two great essays – one on kneeling for prayer and one on standing. Kneeling is a sign of penitence and of humility, while standing is a sign of the Resurrection.

OK, it’s more complicated than that but standing for the entire liturgy was the norm all over the Church until feudal custuoms began to be more pervasive in the Western Church.

**The Orthodox practically set themselves on fire over the “travesty” of kneeling during the liturgy – except during Lent.
**In short: standing is not essentially “unworshipful” or “disrespectful.”
Ther Orthodox also reject the authority of the Pope and the filioque clause among other things, so what utter difference does it make how they reacted? It is completely and utterly irrelevant to anything.
 
Ther Orthodox also reject the authority of the Pope and the filioque clause among other things, so what utter difference does it make how they reacted? It is completely and utterly irrelevant to anything.
It shows that in the EAST, y’know, “TRUE particular Churches” that we in the West respect (although you don’t make it easy) – standing is the norm.

It is entirely relevant to this thread, unlike your comments on the Pope and the filioque.
 
It shows that in the EAST, y’know, “TRUE particular Churches” that we in the West respect (although you don’t make it easy) – standing is the norm.

It is entirely relevant to this thread, unlike your comments on the Pope and the filioque.
This is true. The posture for prayer among the Jews as well as Christians in the East was, standing.

The Lord’s Prayer, being said by the congregation, standing would be the proper posture. IMHO

Jim
 
If one pays attention to the postures assumed by the people during the NO Mass, one discovers that we stand when we pray aloud and or respond to the priest’s prayers, we sit for instruction, stand out of respect for the Gospel (Notice we do not kneel to express respect.)

We sit while the gifts are prepared as we pray silently, stand again for the offering prayer asking God to accept our gifts, kneel in adoration and reverence during the Eucharistic prayers and Consecration, stand to recite the Our Father and give the Kiss of Peace. Both of which are vocal prayer. {“Peace be with you” is more than a simple greeting.)

After the Lamb of God, prayer or hymn, we kneel again to adore the One we are about to receive. Kneel or sit for private prayer following Communion. Finally stand for the closing prayers and blessing.

It is thus possible to correlate posture with what we are doing at a particular moment.
 
If one pays attention to the postures assumed by the people during the NO Mass, one discovers that we stand when we pray aloud and or respond to the priest’s prayers, we sit for instruction, stand out of respect for the Gospel (Notice we do not kneel to express respect.)

We sit while the gifts are prepared as we pray silently, stand again for the offering prayer asking God to accept our gifts, kneel in adoration and reverence during the Eucharistic prayers and Consecration, stand to recite the Our Father and give the Kiss of Peace. Both of which are vocal prayer. {“Peace be with you” is more than a simple greeting.)

After the Lamb of God, prayer or hymn, we kneel again to adore the One we are about to receive. Kneel or sit for private prayer following Communion. Finally stand for the closing prayers and blessing.

It is thus possible to correlate posture with what we are doing at a particular moment.
Clear as gin! 👍
 
It shows that in the EAST, y’know, “TRUE particular Churches” that we in the West respect (although you don’t make it easy) – standing is the norm.

It is entirely relevant to this thread, unlike your comments on the Pope and the filioque.
Just because we respect them doen’t make them right. Or would you argue that their way and the Jewish way is preferable?
 
Anglican-Use parishes kneel for the entire Liturgy of the Eucharist, as well as to receive Our Lord and Savior.
 
Okay, so we are supposed to kneel after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until the Great Amen. We kneel because consecration will take place. Why do we stand up to say the Our Father and then kneel down again after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God)? Jesus is still truly present in the Eucharist when we recite the Lord’s Prayer, so shouldn’t we still be kneeling?
You got me, but it is more of what the Bishops conferences decided when the norm was decided, because in Mexico and Nicaragua they mostly stand except for the consecration and that’s just during the words of consecration.
 
Just because we respect them doen’t make them right. Or would you argue that their way and the Jewish way is preferable?
I am not arguing.

The point is historicity and authenticity. The point is that standing for prayer is not some invention created five minutes ago to drive people like me nuts.
 
Here in Canada the norms for standing/kneeling vary from diocese to diocese. In the Archdiocese of Vancouver (where I currently reside) we, like our American brothers and sisters, kneel from the end of the Sanctus to the Great Amen, and then again during the Agnus Dei. In the Diocese of Victoria (Vancouver Island), they kneel from the end of the Sanctus to the Great Amen but remain standing after that point (they do not kneel during the Agnus Dei). In the Diocese of Nelson (a diocese in the interior of British Columbia) the faithful kneel from the end of the Sanctus until the end of the Consecration (you stand to proclaim the mystery of faith), and do not kneel again.
 
I don’t know the answer but in every Catholic Church I have been to, we always stood for the Our Father and the passing of the peace.
 
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