Star Trek: Discovery

[Padres1969]

Because of the letdown I felt with TNG, I didn’t invest much time in watching DS9 or Voyager, so I can’t really evaluate them as a whole. All I can say based on the little I saw, is that they didn’t impress me much.

Ed

I’d give them another go, particularly DS9 starting with the very end of season 2 on… (although I admit I’m liking VOY on rewatch more than I remember liking it in the 90’s too). One of the best pieces of television out there was a 6th season episode of DS9, “In the Pale Moonlight.” Both were helped immensely by still having that “gallant crew” mentality of TOS, but by also having characters that weren’t perfect like TNG.

 

[kingston1]

Well if you turned on a TV you wouldn’t be able to find this show anyway. It won’t be airing on TV. It’s CBS’ new streaming service that will be bringing this latest iteration of Trek to us

Turn off the streaming. Nothing to see there.

 

[porthos11]

I’d give them another go, particularly DS9 starting with the very end of season 2 on… (although I admit I’m liking VOY on rewatch more than I remember liking it in the 90’s too). One of the best pieces of television out there was a 6th season episode of DS9, “In the Pale Moonlight.” Both were helped immensely by still having that “gallant crew” mentality of TOS, but by also having characters that weren’t perfect like TNG.

Oh yes. With Roddenberry out of the picture (usually, Star Trek gets better when Roddenberry was pushed aside), DS9 returned humanity to being, well, human. Thanks to the Dominion.

A coup attempt on Earth. gasp Earth! for crying out loud, the paradise of the Federation. Complete with blood tests and all that!

Sisko tacitly approving the assassination of a Romulan senator after the fact to ensure the Romulans entered the war against the Dominion.

Federation citizens rebelling against the Federation (“It’s easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise!”)

Ordering Worf to “handle” the Gowron problem.

And as it wound into the Dominion War arc, it became BRUTAL, nothing like what you would see on TNG. Not just the spectacular space battles (featuring the largest Federation/Klingon/Romulan and Dominion/Cardassian/Breen fleets ever seen onscreen), but also on the ground, such as the siege of AR-558 and the Jem’Hadar massacre of the Cardassians. Real conflict between main characters (Kira to Odo: “We are WAY past sorry.”) And of course, the annual “O’Brien Must Suffer” episodes.

In other words, good stuff, and good storytelling.

Even TNG after its second season, as Roddenberry’s influence waned and Berman took more control became more watchable. Seasons 4 through 7 were especially good. But DS9 brought Star Trek back from the clouds to something relatable.

 

[Padres1969]

Thought this might interest folks given we’re on track to have the first new Star Trek series on air (well streaming at any rate) in almost 12 years come January. However, there have been several series that got to at least the pitch phase over the last 50 years that never quite made it to the screen beyond the 5 canonical shows (6 including Discovery) and of course the old Animated Series. A few names you may have heard before, and a few you may not have.

Assignment: Earth - it wasn’t just an episode of TOS’s second season, it was also a backdoor pilot to a lower budget sci-fi spinoff show to the original Star Trek staring Gary Seven, his talking cat Isis and his secretary. When Star Trek wasn’t cancelled as had been feared after Season 2, Assignment: Earth ended up in limbo… permanently.

Star Trek: Phase II - The continuing voyages of the USS Enterprise 1701 under Kirk’s command for a second 5 year mission. Spock replaced by a new Vulcan Xon. A new first officer Will Decker (who later made it into Star Trek The Motion Picture. Navigator Ilia, who also later made it into ST TMP. And a moderately redesigned USS Enterprise, a redesign which was taken even further for TMP. Plans were scrapped when Paramount’s plan for a new TV network fell through, and Star Wars changed the game making a Star Trek movie viable.
**
Star Trek: Final Frontier** - A post Star Trek Enterprise attempt to continue the Star Trek universe on TV. Set in 2528 (150 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era), it would have featured an Alpha Quadrant rendered partly impassable after Omega molecules destroyed subspace and starship’s ability to go to warp over vast regions. Whole systems would have been stranded decades at sublight away from other members of the Federation and after a retaliatory war with the Romulans, whom the Federation blamed for unleashing the Omega molecules, the Federation will have become isolationist. This would have followed the crew of the then current USS Enterprise as they made the first forays into breaking that isolationism. The show was being championed by CBS’s StarTrek.com staff, but when that was reshuffled in 2007 the slow was left in limbo. However a few scripts were produced. Below was the concept art for this show’s USS Enterprise.



Star Trek: Federation - This was another post ENT attempt re-start the Star Trek saga after after that shows demise and the dismal failure of Star Trek Nemesis. It would have been set even further in the future around the year 3000 (or approx 650 years after TNG/DS9/VOY). It would have featured a Federation on the verge of collapse with several member worlds having pulled out of the alliance, and the Klingons and Ferengi now the major players in the Alpha Quadrant. There would have been an attack by a new enemy, the Scourge, the denial of whose existence by the Federation, would have led to Bajor, Betazed, and Vulcan pulling out of the alliance as well. With the Federation on the ropes, they choose to launch the first USS Enterprise as flagship in 2 centuries to try and promote the ideals that led to the Federation’s founding, under the command of Alexander Kirk, presumably a descendant of James Kirk’s brother. Plans were scrapped when Star Trek '09 was announced giving us the Abramsverse movies.

io9.gizmodo.com/the-star-trek-tv-shows-that-never-happened-1785166911

 

[Padres1969]

Yeah the scene on Cardassia at the end of the war is definitely interesting. It’s actually Sisko, Martok and Admiral Ross. The two humans are not inclined to drink after the Cardassians turned on the Dominion and had millions of their people wiped out for the change of heart to the good guys. Martok however, sees a win as a win, simply snorts, mumbles something in Klingonese, and goes right on drinking. I mean it’s clear from the course of the show he respects the heck out of Sisko in particular, but he doesn’t always understand humans and our reluctance to revel in battle and subsequent hard earned victory.

 

[edwest2]

Thought this might interest folks given we’re on track to have the first new Star Trek series on air (well streaming at any rate) in almost 12 years come January. However, there have been several series that got to at least the pitch phase over the last 50 years that never quite made it to the screen beyond the 5 canonical shows (6 including Discovery) and of course the old Animated Series. A few names you may have heard before, and a few you may not have.

Assignment: Earth - it wasn’t just an episode of TOS’s second season, it was also a backdoor pilot to a lower budget sci-fi spinoff show to the original Star Trek staring Gary Seven, his talking cat Isis and his secretary. When Star Trek wasn’t cancelled as had been feared after Season 2, Assignment: Earth ended up in limbo… permanently.

Star Trek: Phase II - The continuing voyages of the USS Enterprise 1701 under Kirk’s command for a second 5 year mission. Spock replaced by a new Vulcan Xon. A new first officer Will Decker (who later made it into Star Trek The Motion Picture. Navigator Ilia, who also later made it into ST TMP. And a moderately redesigned USS Enterprise, a redesign which was taken even further for TMP. Plans were scrapped when Paramount’s plan for a new TV network fell through, and Star Wars changed the game making a Star Trek movie viable.
**
Star Trek: Final Frontier** - A post Star Trek Enterprise attempt to continue the Star Trek universe on TV. Set in 2528 (150 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era), it would have featured an Alpha Quadrant rendered partly impassable after Omega molecules destroyed subspace and starship’s ability to go to warp over vast regions. Whole systems would have been stranded decades at sublight away from other members of the Federation and after a retaliatory war with the Romulans, whom the Federation blamed for unleashing the Omega molecules, the Federation will have become isolationist. This would have followed the crew of the then current USS Enterprise as they made the first forays into breaking that isolationism. The show was being championed by CBS’s StarTrek.com staff, but when that was reshuffled in 2007 the slow was left in limbo. However a few scripts were produced. Below was the concept art for this show’s USS Enterprise.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-medi...ogressive,q_80,w_800/pclerwnuhv3b1hh1qn9r.png

Star Trek: Federation - This was another post ENT attempt re-start the Star Trek saga after after that shows demise and the dismal failure of Star Trek Nemesis. It would have been set even further in the future around the year 3000 (or approx 650 years after TNG/DS9/VOY). It would have featured a Federation on the verge of collapse with several member worlds having pulled out of the alliance, and the Klingons and Ferengi now the major players in the Alpha Quadrant. There would have been an attack by a new enemy, the Scourge, the denial of whose existence by the Federation, would have led to Bajor, Betazed, and Vulcan pulling out of the alliance as well. With the Federation on the ropes, they choose to launch the first USS Enterprise as flagship in 2 centuries to try and promote the ideals that led to the Federation’s founding, under the command of Alexander Kirk, presumably a descendant of James Kirk’s brother. Plans were scrapped when Star Trek '09 was announced giving us the Abramsverse movies.

io9.gizmodo.com/the-star-trek-tv-shows-that-never-happened-1785166911

Thanks for the art. Interesting. I was hoping for an Assignment: Earth spinoff but as I thought about it, I began to realize that saving the past/present would get tiresome, although it is one my favorite episodes from TOS.

I prefer the JJVerse. And with all due respect to Mr. Abrams, he does not have his craft down yet. I thought Star Wars: The Force Awakens to have been somewhat exciting but very superficial aside from the Rey character. A psychopathic nutball is going finish the job a true villain started? I don’t think so.

Ed

 

[porthos11]

I’d give them another go, particularly DS9 starting with the very end of season 2 on… (although I admit I’m liking VOY on rewatch more than I remember liking it in the 90’s too). One of the best pieces of television out there was a 6th season episode of DS9, “In the Pale Moonlight.” Both were helped immensely by still having that “gallant crew” mentality of TOS, but by also having characters that weren’t perfect like TNG.

The ending of In the Pale Moonlight was awesome.

“So… I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all… I think I can live with it.”

There’s no way Picard or even Kirk would do what Sisko did.

Sisko’s behaviour in this episode was objectively immoral, but what makes this episode so excellent is that he knew it and felt he had to do do it anyway. One does not have to condone the actions he took (don’t care about Garak, who pulled the trigger. Because as an alien, we don’t bind him to human morality). And the thing is, the viewer understands, participates, and can either support or oppose Sisko’s actions. The kind of stuff that can trigger discussions over the dinner table.

“And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal… and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don’t know about you, but I’d call that a bargain.” – Garak

TNG did not do that. Rather, most of the time, the hero either “owns” the opponent (Picard and the Sheliak) or “does the right thing” (Riker and Admiral Pressman). Feel-good stuff, but nothing to write home about.

 

[edwest2]

The ending of In the Pale Moonlight was awesome.

“So… I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all… I think I can live with it.”

There’s no way Picard or even Kirk would do what Sisko did.

Sisko’s behaviour in this episode was objectively immoral, but what makes this episode so excellent is that he knew it and felt he had to do do it anyway. One does not have to condone the actions he took (don’t care about Garak, who pulled the trigger. Because as an alien, we don’t bind him to human morality). And the thing is, the viewer understands, participates, and can either support or oppose Sisko’s actions. The kind of stuff that can trigger discussions over the dinner table.

“And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal… and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don’t know about you, but I’d call that a bargain.” – Garak

TNG did not do that. Rather, most of the time, the hero either “owns” the opponent (Picard and the Sheliak) or “does the right thing” (Riker and Admiral Pressman). Feel-good stuff, but nothing to write home about.

The ends do not justify the means. As human beings, we should always encourage each other to make the right choices. Good choices are good building blocks over time for a people, a world.

Ed

 

[porthos11]

The ends do not justify the means. As human beings, we should always encourage each other to make the right choices. Good choices are good building blocks over time for a people, a world.

Ed

We are not talking about moral principles, which we are all agreed on. We are talking about what makes good writing and a good story, even if we do not agree with the actions taken by the protagonist.

Conflict is a key element in any good story. You know that. And what better conflict than one that takes place within a good man such as Benjamin Sisko? It engages the audience and this is what makes the episode one of the more memorable ones.

Sanitized characters like Picard and the Enterprise-D crew are one reason TNG is more forgettable than DS9, and especially why the first and second seasons were extraordinarily stilted.

“In the Pale Moonlight” is not Star Trek encouraging people to do what Sisko did. Rather, it does prompt you to think: what would you have done in the exact same situation? Or at least to muse, boy, am I glad I’m not in HIS shoes.

That’s good writing. The fact that it spawned a discussion on this thread alone proves it.

 

[Padres1969]

The ends do not justify the means. As human beings, we should always encourage each other to make the right choices. Good choices are good building blocks over time for a people, a world.

Ed

True, but as that episode explored, sometimes a comparatively small evil can prevent an exponentially worse evil. Two loves to save billions? A decision real commanders in war sometimes face.

 

[edwest2]

The company I work for follows the ethics and decisions of Star Trek TOS. You can tell the good guys from the bad guys, and no, the good guys are not perfect and never get into arguments with each other, or even question themselves. Our company is known for being family friendly and I, as one of the editors, make sure that our standards are met when I’m going through a manuscript. Yes, sometimes the story can take on a life of its own when I’m asked to do some writing, but of all the different directions it could go, I eventually choose which way it will go. It then goes on to another editor and the Editor-In-Chief has final say.

We’ve been around a while and our fan base, and competitors, know how we approach fiction.

I’ve known real people who have been in combat. One saw a bad decision made. But fiction, in our case, imitates life only to a certain degree.

Ed

 

[_Abyssinia]

Update:

Actress Michelle Yeoh has been cast as Captain Han Bo: tvline.com/2016/11/23/star-trek-discovery-michelle-yeoh-cast/