Star Wars Ep 3 - What if... (spoilers)

[wabrams]

Faustina:

It was the love of Obi Wan that did not totally destroy him. Obi Wan could not kill him because of his love of Anakin. But it was Anakin’s twisted idea of love that killed Padame.

His twisted love of Padme led to his fall into the Dark Side. His hatred for Obi Wan is what kept him alive after catching on fire.

 

[Milliardo]

StratusRose:

I have a question. In Episode VI, Luke says to Leia, “Do you remember your mother…your real mother?” And Leia says something like “yes, she died when I was very young, she was very beautiful but sad.” How could this be when Padme dies seconds after the twins are born?

She has Jedi powers, though she was unaware of it until Luke told her about it. So she was able to sense Padme in some way.

AND! In Episode IV, Obi-Wan gives Luke Anakin’s lightsaber and says, “Your father wanted you to have this, but your uncle wouldn’t hear of it…” Another contradiction!! Lucas’ contradictions really urked me in this movie!!

Ok, I admit it, I’m a Star Wars nerd.

Already answered in Episode VI:

Luke: Why didn’t you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father!

Obi-Wan: Your father was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true…from a certain point of view.

Luke: A certain point of view!?

Obi-Wan: Luke, you will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view…Anakin was a good friend…(and here Obi-Wan recounts about him and Anakin)

See, I’m a Star Wars nerd as well (the dialogue was all from memory; I’ve seen Episode VI so many times I can probably tell all the dialogue there).

 

[777]

So it was Anakin that rubbed out his own spouse…yipe…!!

 

[Ghosty]

I really liked the “Noooooo!” I think it was a direct reference to Luke’s scream in Episode V when he learns that Vader is his father. It’s over done for a NORMAL movie, but it is perfectly in theme for Star Wars, and is in fact an inside reference, I believe.

Personally I thought it was strangely touching that the first thing Vader does after coming out of the life-support is ask about Padme. When he learns of her death, he realizes that he’s lost everything. Remember, the WHOLE reason he dipped into the Dark Side was to save her; he never intended to simply become a Sith and leave it at that. Now he’s lost his body, his friends, and his only love, and he realizes it’s all because of his own free choices. That scream was the death-scream of Anakin, and the birth of the Darth Vader we know from the original trilogy. It all ties together.

 

[777]

Ghosty:

I really liked the “Noooooo!!” I think it was a direct reference to Luke’s scream in Episode V when he learns that Vader is his father. It’s over done for a NORMAL movie, but it is perfectly in theme for Star Wars.

So was the line, “I got a bad feeling 'bout that.”

 

[Ghosty]

So was the line, “I got a bad feeling 'bout that.”

And, “this is where the fun begins”. The movie is actually full of references like that, I just can’t remember any more off the top of my head. It’s the final Star Wars film, and it’s a cap-stone, a tie-up, and an homage to the rest of the series.

It’s also got a lot of references to other films, most notably Frankenstein. I also could have sworn that “Sith Lords are our specialty” was a play off of a line from some film as well, as I know the way Obi-Wan said it struck me as very familiar. Something in me wants to say it might even have been from Shrek, but I’m not certain.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Faustina:

Is it ironic that what essentially killed Padame (love) is what kept Anakin alive? So Obi Wan and Anakin(Darth Vader) are different sides of the same coin.

What is ironic is that the very power Anakin was trying to develop to save Padame is what he used to killed her. He didn’t realize that he was the very cause of the dreams of Padame dying.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Scott_Lafrance:

What is ironic is that the very power Anakin was trying to develop to save Padame is what he used to killed her. He didn’t realize that he was the very cause of the dreams of Padame dying.

 

[mommy]

NWUArmyROTC:

Fine, at least do a force push, so he goes into the river of Lava. That would effectively kill him.

My friends and I were wondering if Obi Wan does not kill Anakin because (a) it would be un-jedi, (b) he loves Anakin too much he cannot bring himself to kill him.

Yes. on both counts… … Although at that point, after Anikin killing all other Jedi, I would think it would be 100% self defense, and in defense of the republic. So maybe only yes to B. I think Obi was heartbroken as well. Anikin was bascially his family.

 

[Ghosty]

Yes. on both counts… … Although at that point, after Anikin killing all other Jedi, I would think it would be 100% self defense, and in defense of the republic. So maybe only yes to B. I think Obi was heartbroken as well. Anikin was bascially his family.

Just some of my thoughts on this action and the Jedi/Sith code in general. (Yes I’m a total nerd who’s read a LOT of Star Wars material).

In the novelization it says that Ob-Wan considered finishing the job, but decided at that point to let the Force do its job. Remember he says “I will do what I must,” and that’s indicative of Obi-Wan’s (and the Jedi in general) approach to the Force. Anakin wasn’t a threat at that point, and was indeed dying. It’s not so much the killing that is inherently wrong, it’s using the Force to push the hand of nature too much, and killing is an obvious and egregious example of that. Obi-Wan had done enough, in his mind, and it was time to let the natural flow of the Force, of nature, take over.

This is also hinted at with Palpatine’s discussion with Anakin in the theatre when he mentions that the Force can be used to do things that some consider unnatural, such as preserving life indefinately. In the Sith mindest, there really isn’t a “Dark Side” of the Force per se, in the sense that there’s some distinction between types of Force power; that’s really more of a Jedi philosophy and their view is pretty unique to them. The Sith speak of the Dark Side only in reference to the Jedi’s beliefs about it, but really it’s a pretty foreing concept to them. They understand love, and other positive emotions, they just believe that the individual’s will trumps all else, and if you have the power to shape the world around you, you are obligated to do it (“it is your destiny”). It’s a very “Will to Power” kind of faith, and one that isn’t as simplistic as the Jedi make it out to be. They have empathy, they aren’t sociopaths, they just believe that everything, even emotions, are supposed to serve the individual will, which is why they’re willing to tap into their hatred and anger because it gives them more power with the Force.

For the Sith, the ends (personal power/godhood) justify the means (anger, rage, betrayal, and yes, even love can provide the push necessary to truely warp the Force to one’s will). Personal power is the holy grail of their faith, not simply a short-sighted desire to dominate (“Power! Unlimited power!”) For Jedi, the means (peace, calm, following natural law) are the ends. The Jedi don’t study the Force because they want cool magic tricks to defend people with, they do it because it is part of nature, and they seek tranquil communion with all things. Being a Jedi isn’t necessarily about being a nice guy who gives money to charity and loves puppies, it’s a whole philosophy about finding one’s place within the greater tapestry of the universe, and acting in concert with nature (and the Force), and not against it.

The Sith are undoubtedly evil, just not in the simplistic way they are portrayed by the Jedi, and the Jedi are not necessarily the noble heros that everyone trusts and loves. In fact, the Jedi are among the most mistrusted people in the galaxy in the stories outside of the movies, and even within them.