State of grace

[bargar]

Hi everyone,

I’m new to the forum. I’m a revert and I have some things that are bugging me. They are probably from my Protestant years, but I’m have trouble making sense of things sometimes.

The whole “state of grace” thing is frustrating. It seems that if we commit a mortal sin, that we lose sancifying grace, and it cannot be restored without the sacrament of confession. This seems very objective and clear to an extent. But from everything I’ve read, it seems that commiting an actual mortal sin is very subjective. When I was growing up I thought mortal sins were listed somewhere. Like…say…the Ten Commandments, or maybe those sins listed in the catechism as “grave matter”.

Then I hear apologists/theologians say that mortal sins have more to do with the will, full knowledge and consent and things like that. These folks seem to imply that mortal sins are very rare.

Can anyone clarify this for me? How do I know what sins are mortal? I know this was a huge issue for Martin Luther, and I can see why.

On a related issue…How do Protestants (whom we consider brothers in Christ) return to sancifying grace if they commit a mortal sin?

Thanks!

bargar

 

[jmcrae]

Can anyone clarify this for me? How do I know what sins are mortal? I know this was a huge issue for Martin Luther, and I can see why.

In order to be a mortal sin, the act committed must be grave matter (something that we find in the Catechism under the Ten Commandments) - in addition, the person has to have been aware of the sinfulness of the action at the time they committed it AND they must have done so with free consent of the will.

Now, this doesn’t mean that only someone who is thoroughly familiar with the Catechism would be capable of committing a mortal sin. God’s law is written on our hearts, and we can know that we are doing something that is very wrong, even if we don’t know which commandment we are violating.

For example, someone who is spreading gossip, who prefaces their statement by saying, “Normally I wouldn’t say anything, but …” knows perfectly well that they are committing a sin, even though they might not be specifically aware that the eighth commandment forbids gossiping. And if the information was not being tortured out of them, then they also have “free consent of the will” - meaning that, in this case, a mortal sin has been committed, since the three conditions are present: grave matter, full knowledge, and free consent of the will.

So, mortal sin is not as common as it would be if every grave action were also a mortal sin - but nor is it as rare as it would be if total familiarity with the Catechism were required before we could have full knowledge of the sinfulness of our actions.

A child who shows disrespect to his parents is aware that he is wrong to do so, even though he probably doesn’t even know that there is such a thing as the Catechism - again, because God’s law is on our hearts.

On a related issue…How do Protestants (whom we consider brothers in Christ) return to sancifying grace if they commit a mortal sin?

Two possible ways: first would be Perfect Contrition (which would be the hard way), and the second would be, to join an RCIA program, and after proper instruction in this Sacrament, go to First Confession during the Lenten season in preparation for their remaining Sacraments of Initiation - Confirmation, and First Holy Communion. This would be the easy way.

 

[bargar]

I understand what you are saying. It’s similar to what I’ve heard before. Of course, Jesus said lust is the same as adultery, and name calling is murder. It’s easy to see why Luther was so troubled. We all should be.

I don’t think a perfect act of contrition is that difficult for a Protestant. They do not fear hell as a result of their sin if they believe in once saved always saved.

bargar

 

[jmcrae]

I understand what you are saying. It’s similar to what I’ve heard before. Of course, Jesus said lust is the same as adultery, and name calling is murder. It’s easy to see why Luther was so troubled. We all should be.

Yes - it is very easy to commit a mortal sin, but fortunately, we cannot do it by accident. It’s only “mortal” when we know that we have done wrong. Someone who sincerely believes that lust or anger is “natural” and has never been taught otherwise is not committing a mortal sin, although he certainly is damaging his soul and his future relationships - there will be temporal loss, but not eternal loss, in that case.

I don’t think a perfect act of contrition is that difficult for a Protestant. They do not fear hell as a result of their sin if they believe in once saved always saved.

They might have the opposite problem of not realizing that forgiveness isn’t “automatic” - we have to ask for it, with perfect love for God in our hearts and not thinking of what we might get out of it.

 

[bargar]

…forgiveness isn’t “automatic” - we have to ask for it, with perfect love for God in our hearts and not thinking of what we might get out of it.

This is confusing. If the mortal sin destroyed our charity, then how can we ask for forgiveness with perfect love for God. This sounds contradictory.

Didn’t Pelagius question whether God asks us to do the impossible?

 

[jmcrae]

This is confusing. If the mortal sin destroyed our charity, then how can we ask for forgiveness with perfect love for God. This sounds contradictory.

That’s why most of us need to go to Confession - because for most of us, Perfect Contrition (asking for forgiveness for our mortal sins with perfect love for God) is, in fact, impossible.

Didn’t Pelagius question whether God asks us to do the impossible?

I have no idea - I don’t know very much about Pelagius, other than that they named a heresy after him - more to the point, he did not believe that sanctifying grace was necessary at all (so, I suppose that the idea of going to Confession, or the idea of having perfect Contrition, would not have made any sense to him in the first place). But that is the limit of my knowledge about Pelagius, other than that he came from Britain, and obviously must have promulgated his heresy prior to 418 AD, which is when it was condemned by the Church.

 

[Image_of_God]

It would be easy to see that even if one has lost charity, they can have perfect contrition, if one, understands that contrition is a gift from God.

Contrition and Charity are gifts from God. They are given to us. God is willing to give some of us, perfect contrition, but for most of us, it is imperfect contrition.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

for most of us, Perfect Contrition (asking for forgiveness for our mortal sins with perfect love for God) is, in fact, impossible.

jmcrae,

I just wanted to focus on this one point, because I feel that it can often be overstated.

The “perfect” in “perfect contrition” refers to the nature of contrition, per se, specifically its motive, and does not refer to the intensity of love. Contrition is called “perfect” if it has as its primary motive love of God. There may be secondary motives.

The well-known traditional “Act of Contrition” (O my God, I am heartily sorry. . .because I dread the loss of heaven, and the pains of hell; but most of all because they offend Thee, my God. . .) contains in it the expression of perfect contrition, since it claims love of God as its primary motive.

An act of perfect contrition is not a “perfect act of contrition”, nor is it contrition that admits of no secondary motive, nor contrition which admits of no attachment to venial sin. Because of this, and because “perfect contrition” seems to have been the normative means of pardoning the sinner before Christ instituted sacramental confession (i.e. under the Old Law), I find it difficult to say that perfect contrition is only a remote possibility or practically impossible.

see Fr. Hardon’s definition of perfect contrition in the Catholic Dictonary:

PERFECT CONTRITION. . .Moreover, in the act of perfect contrition other motives can coexist with the perfect love required. There can be fear or gratitude, or even lesser motives such as self-respect and self-interest, along with the dominant reason for sorrow, which is love for God.

Image of God,
You poiint out the necessity of grace for perfect contrition. But I don’t think it necessarily follows that most of us only have imperfect contrition.

Thoughts?
God Bless,
VC

 

[bargar]

Interesting thoughts. I’m still left wondering what it means that “charity” is destroyed, in our hearts, by mortal sin?