State of Nothingness.

[New_Year_SMS]

Is there a such thing as a state of nothingness? If God is infinite, and as Bruno stated, the Universe is infinite, can there possibly exist somewhere a metaphysical state of nothingness? I don’t think any aspect of the human mind can exhibit such a phenomenon; even those in a state of coma or who are brain dead still exhibit basic bodily functions (and that is debatable, as in recent news articles). On to the body. Yes I know the whole “Matrix” theory and such which is being debated on another thread. But seriously, from the most rational system of thought and logic, could we really be nothing or achieve nothingness? If we were nothing, then why would we perceive something? Having nothing implies nothing; something cannot be derived from nothing (aka Aquinas somewhere in the ontological Five Proofs). So after that statement, yes true it is pure verbosity and a clever usage of word, semantics considered, would one consider nothingness? Why would any rational individual believe in nothingness if there is no origin? How can something exist without origin unless it is infinite or omnipotent. We are NOT infinite due to death; only God judges if we have eternal life. So what if death is just an image you say? Well I respond that it is not since we must live in a state of finitude; if we were infinite, we could do anything we want beyond the limitations of physical nature. Our minds can think of such outcomes yes, but can they think of an INFINITE number of methods to break the limits of nature as in gravity? Now I don’t believe in gravity as an absolute principle; just a human understanding of the infinity of God’s wisdom in Creation. Lets continue a bit (hopefully this is all making sense, since this is total stream of consciousness here).

Outside of the mind, can nothingness exist in nature? Can there be a piece of earth that is nothing? The air is a primary concern. I mean it is nothing in one sense, but so integral to our existence and it can be perceived. Is perception then the basis of negating the existence? If I follow such an assumption (Descartes here we go!), then what about space. Can we perceive some black hole as nothingness? But if the object itself exists (AKA Plato, divided line theory, theory of forms), and we perceive or acknowledge its existence either on a theoretical or real-life life through abstractions, can we totally negate the existence of nothingness? And a final thought, I guess which is impossible to answer since none of us posses the omnipotence of God. Would God ever want or intend to create nothingness if Creation is “good?” So in effect, this philosophical state of nothingness seems to be impossible. Prove me wrong (obviously this is not a proof in any respect…just some random musings and thoughts which have always bothered me). Phenomenology and Ontology, Sartre and Heidgger here we go.

Thanks!

.

 

[GEddie]

Is there a such thing as a state of nothingness? If God is infinite, and as Bruno stated, the Universe is infinite, can there possibly exist somewhere a metaphysical state of nothingness? I don’t think any aspect of the human mind can exhibit such a phenomenon; even those in a state of coma or who are brain dead still exhibit basic bodily functions (and that is debatable, as in recent news articles). On to the body.

Yes, the body is the key.

You can – you must – go into nothingness when you are dead, when there is no longer a functional head to generate your mind; nothingness is merely a complete lack of mentation; this happens when the body no longer generates a mind. But this is a mental nothingness, not physical. The material of your body remains even when it no longer forms a body.

When God releases you from death (in Heaven), you will emerge from nothingness to full aliveness. Pneumatikon soma; spiritual body.

Yes I know the whole “Matrix” theory and such which is being debated on another thread. But seriously, from the most rational system of thought and logic, could we really be nothing or achieve nothingness? If we were nothing, then why would we perceive something? Having nothing implies nothing; something cannot be derived from nothing (aka Aquinas somewhere in the ontological Five Proofs). So after that statement, yes true it is pure verbosity and a clever usage of word, semantics considered, would one consider nothingness? Why would any rational individual believe in nothingness if there is no origin? How can something exist without origin unless it is infinite or omnipotent. We are NOT infinite due to death; only God judges if we have eternal life. So what if death is just an image you say? Well I respond that it is not since we must live in a state of finitude; if we were infinite, we could do anything we want beyond the limitations of physical nature. Our minds can think of such outcomes yes, but can they think of an INFINITE number of methods to break the limits of nature as in gravity? Now I don’t believe in gravity as an absolute principle; just a human understanding of the infinity of God’s wisdom in Creation. Lets continue a bit (hopefully this is all making sense, since this is total stream of consciousness here).

Outside of the mind, can nothingness exist in nature? Can there be a piece of earth that is nothing? The air is a primary concern. I mean it is nothing in one sense, but so integral to our existence and it can be perceived.

Air is definitely not nothing. In a human sense, it is the beginning of everything, since “you” cannot “be” unless there is breath in your body.

This is true whether you perceive it or not; you are not aware of your breathing while you are asleep; yet if your breathing were disrupted during sleep, you would either wake up or cease being.

The vaccuum is not nothing, either, although it will not maintain our life. There is matter and energy in the highest vaccuum science can achieve. "Nothingness is like absolute zero; physically, it can be thought of, but never reached.

Is perception then the basis of negating the existence? If I follow such an assumption (Descartes here we go!), then what about space. Can we perceive some black hole as nothingness? But if the object itself exists (AKA Plato, divided line theory, theory of forms), and we perceive or acknowledge its existence either on a theoretical or real-life life through abstractions, can we totally negate the existence of nothingness? And a final thought, I guess which is impossible to answer since none of us posses the omnipotence of God. Would God ever want or intend to create nothingness if Creation is “good?” So in effect, this philosophical state of nothingness seems to be impossible. Prove me wrong (obviously this is not a proof in any respect…just some random musings and thoughts which have always bothered me). Phenomenology and Ontology, Sartre and Heidgger here we go.

Thanks!

.

I’ll leave this piece for someone else, I am a nonphilosopher and proud of it.

ICXC NIKA

 

[centurionguard]

Is there a such thing as a state of nothingness? If God is infinite, and as Bruno stated, the Universe is infinite, can there possibly exist somewhere a metaphysical state of nothingness? I don’t think any aspect of the human mind can exhibit such a phenomenon; even those in a state of coma or who are brain dead still exhibit basic bodily functions (and that is debatable, as in recent news articles). On to the body. Yes I know the whole “Matrix” theory and such which is being debated on another thread. But seriously, from the most rational system of thought and logic, could we really be nothing or achieve nothingness? If we were nothing, then why would we perceive something? Having nothing implies nothing; something cannot be derived from nothing (aka Aquinas somewhere in the ontological Five Proofs). So after that statement, yes true it is pure verbosity and a clever usage of word, semantics considered, would one consider nothingness? Why would any rational individual believe in nothingness if there is no origin? How can something exist without origin unless it is infinite or omnipotent. We are NOT infinite due to death; only God judges if we have eternal life. So what if death is just an image you say? Well I respond that it is not since we must live in a state of finitude; if we were infinite, we could do anything we want beyond the limitations of physical nature. Our minds can think of such outcomes yes, but can they think of an INFINITE number of methods to break the limits of nature as in gravity? Now I don’t believe in gravity as an absolute principle; just a human understanding of the infinity of God’s wisdom in Creation. Lets continue a bit (hopefully this is all making sense, since this is total stream of consciousness here).

Outside of the mind, can nothingness exist in nature? Can there be a piece of earth that is nothing? The air is a primary concern. I mean it is nothing in one sense, but so integral to our existence and it can be perceived. Is perception then the basis of negating the existence? If I follow such an assumption (Descartes here we go!), then what about space. Can we perceive some black hole as nothingness? But if the object itself exists (AKA Plato, divided line theory, theory of forms), and we perceive or acknowledge its existence either on a theoretical or real-life life through abstractions, can we totally negate the existence of nothingness? And a final thought, I guess which is impossible to answer since none of us posses the omnipotence of God. Would God ever want or intend to create nothingness if Creation is “good?” So in effect, this philosophical state of nothingness seems to be impossible. Prove me wrong (obviously this is not a proof in any respect…just some random musings and thoughts which have always bothered me). Phenomenology and Ontology, Sartre and Heidgger here we go.

Thanks!

.

**Is there a such thing as a state of nothingness? If God is infinite, and as Bruno stated, the Universe is infinite, can there possibly exist somewhere a metaphysical state of nothingness? **

If there is nothingness/void no mere human being could possible comprehend such a state.

As far as the Universe is concerned (“Its NOT Infinite its Finite”) All things that come into existence is created outside the immeasurable Infinite quality and perfection of God.

 

[JimG]

Nothingness is a state of total non-being. In a state of nothingness, there is no thing. No matter, no energy, no space, no time, no dimensions, no perception.

Creation is the action of bringing into being something, where before, there was nothing. Creation is something only God can do. And it doesn’t even occur “in” time, because “before” creation, there is no time and no space.

Of course, God is not nothing, and he is eternal but non-material.

 

[fhansen]

Nothingness is a state of total non-being. In a state of nothingness, there is no thing. No matter, no energy, no space, no time, no dimensions, no perception.

Creation is the action of bringing into being something, where before, there was nothing. Creation is something only God can do. And it doesn’t even occur “in” time, because “before” creation, there is no time and no space.

Of course, God is not nothing, and he is eternal but non-material.

But doesn’t this still mean that there was never nothing? I doubt there was nothing before creation because where would nothing be? The term “nothing” simply implies no thing-we can’t even conceive of nothingness except in relation to some thing. OK, brain’s already overload’in here.

 

[GEddie]

But doesn’t this still mean that there was never nothing? I doubt there was nothing before creation because where would nothing be? The term “nothing” simply implies no thing-we can’t even conceive of nothingness except in relation to some thing. OK, brain’s already overload’in here.

Forget it.

You can’t mentalize nothingness, simply because to mentalize anything, you need a representation of that thing in your head; however, such a representation of “nothingness” is, simply, a contradiction in terms.

And because time itself is part of the creation, there could not be any “before” the creation .

ICXC NIKA

 

[JDaniel]

Yes, the body is the key.

You can – you must – go into nothingness when you are dead, when there is no longer a functional head to generate your mind; nothingness is merely a complete lack of mentation; this happens when the body no longer generates a mind. But this is a mental nothingness, not physical. The material of your body remains even when it no longer forms a body.

When God releases you from death (in Heaven), you will emerge from nothingness to full aliveness. Pneumatikon soma; spiritual body.

GE:

Yes. I was thinking, also, purgatory, but in purgatory you are present, so it’s not nothing.

God bless,
jd

 

[JimG]

But doesn’t this still mean that there was never nothing? I doubt there was nothing before creation because where would nothing be? The term “nothing” simply implies no thing-we can’t even conceive of nothingness except in relation to some thing. OK, brain’s already overload’in here.

Well, it implies that “before” Creation, there was nothing but God. And God is pure spirit, occupying no space or time, and having no extension in either of those (or any) dimensions.

But when God created, he created both spiritual beings (angels) and material beings, (the universe and man (man being a composite of the material and spiritual).

But here’s an interesting point: since we are all created from nothing, we remain as firmly dependent on God for our existence at every instant, as the universe did at the first instant of creation.

When you make something, say–a vase–then go off and leave it, and even forget about it, it remains in existence because it is held in existence by the material from which it is made–i.e., clay.

When God creates from nothing, if he goes off and forgets about his creation, it continues to be held in existence by the material from which it is made, i.e. nothing.

For this reason, we know that God does not in fact forget about us, because we continue to exist. Every created thing depends at every instant upon God’s ‘continuous’ (which is to say eternal) creative intent.

Thank you, Frank Sheed.

 

[JDaniel]

Is there a such thing as a state of nothingness? If God is infinite, and as Bruno stated, the Universe is infinite, can there possibly exist somewhere a metaphysical state of nothingness? I don’t think any aspect of the human mind can exhibit such a phenomenon; even those in a state of coma or who are brain dead still exhibit basic bodily functions (and that is debatable, as in recent news articles). On to the body. Yes I know the whole “Matrix” theory and such which is being debated on another thread. But seriously, from the most rational system of thought and logic, could we really be nothing or achieve nothingness? If we were nothing, then why would we perceive something?

NYSMS:

The concept is: the universe was created where there was nothing before. On the other hand, if you are speaking of us, as mortals (en-souled human beings), then there was nothing-for-us before our conception. But that changed at the moment of our conception(s).

God bless,
jd

 

[fhansen]

Well, it implies that “before” Creation, there was nothing but God. And God is pure spirit, occupying no space or time, and having no extension in either of those (or any) dimensions.

But when God created, he created both spiritual beings (angels) and material beings, (the universe and man (man being a composite of the material and spiritual).

But here’s an interesting point: since we are all created from nothing, we remain as firmly dependent on God for our existence at every instant, as the universe did at the first instant of creation.

When you make something, say–a vase–then go off and leave it, and even forget about it, it remains in existence because it is held in existence by the material from which it is made–i.e., clay.

When God creates from nothing, if he goes off and forgets about his creation, it continues to be held in existence by the material from which it is made, i.e. nothing.

For this reason, we know that God does not in fact forget about us, because we continue to exist. Every created thing depends at every instant upon God’s ‘continuous’ (which is to say eternal) creative intent.

Thank you, Frank Sheed.

Well, OK, I understand that “before” there was a physical universe there was no physical universe. But there was God. And, while God isn’t physical, He’s still something-and definitely not nothing! There never was nor ever will be nothingness. I think. Oh, yeah, therefore I am! But where was I before I was? Alright, I’ll let greater minds deal with this. Promise.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

There is no such thing as a “state of nothingness”. Its a logical contradiction. the word “nothing” means no-thing. So there would be “no thing” to which we could apply the adjective “state”.

 

[tonyrey]

There is no such thing as a “state of nothingness”. Its a logical contradiction. the word “nothing” means no-thing. So there would be “no thing” to which we could apply the adjective “state”.

Welcome back!
I’m not even sure that “total nothingness” is a logical possibility… It may well be a vacuous concept, i.e. a myth.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Welcome back!
I’m not even sure that “total nothingness” is a logical possibility… It may well be a vacuous concept, i.e. a myth.

“No-thing exists” would be a logical contradiction on any level.

 

[JDaniel]

Well, OK, I understand that “before” there was a physical universe there was no physical universe. But there was God. And, while God isn’t physical, He’s still something-and definitely not nothing! There never was nor ever will be nothingness. I think. Oh, yeah, therefore I am! But where was I before I was? Alright, I’ll let greater minds deal with this. Promise.

FH:

Or is it, “I am, therefore I think?”

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

“No-thing exists” would be a logical contradiction on any level.

What’s up, Warp?

God bless,
jd

 

[warpspeedpetey]

What’s up, Warp?

God bless,
jd

Not much, how have you been?

 

[GEddie]

Not much, how have you been?

In keeping with the thread, shouldn’t you have said, “Nothing”???

ICXC NIKA

 

[warpspeedpetey]

In keeping with the thread, shouldn’t you have said, “Nothing”???

ICXC NIKA

lol

 

[lemondiesel]

Basically you’re asking to disprove miracles?