State of the world and delaying pregnancy

[Link0126]

Would delaying pregnancy indefinitely via NFP b/c of the current state of the world and the trends of our nation (think about what happened yesterday) be morally acceptable according to the guidelines of the Church?

It does not seem right to actively seek to bring a child in a world that is becoming more and more corrupt on a daily basis.

 

[cjmclark]

Would delaying pregnancy indefinitely via NFP b/c of the current state of the world and the trends of our nation (think about what happened yesterday) be morally acceptable according to the guidelines of the Church?

It does not seem right to actively seek to bring a child in a world that is becoming more and more corrupt on a daily basis.

This treads dangerously close to Gnosticism. While there are corrupting forces that exist in the world (and always have and will until the end), the world itself is God’s creation and is by its nature good.

The gift of Life has a beauty all its own, that can by its very virtue bring purity into even the most corrupting of times. Remember that the early Christians lived in a time not only of active religious persecution, but of extreme immorality and corruption. Had they decided not to have children, we likely wouldn’t be here.

Ultimately, the Church teaches that it is up to the discretion and the conscience of the parents as to whether their motivation is sufficient to delay pregnancy. But I implore you not to lose hope. I will pray for you.

 

[Allegra]

No offense, but I think that attitude demonstrates a marked lack in faith. No time or place in the history of mankind was perfect and often, conditions have been much worse than ours. Don’t sucumb to fear and dispair. Who knows? Perhaps the next generation will make things better.

 

[daisybee]

From the article: catholic.com/magazine/articles/planet-un-parenthood (The focus of the article is different than your question, but related.)

Hope is what gives us the strength to say “Yes” to life. Hope looks at the world and looks at the future and says, “Yes, we can welcome more children here,” because, as Pope John Paul II wrote, “Life . . . is always a good” (EV 31).

Using NFP to avoid pregnancy is a misuse of NFP. It’s meant to help couples plan families, not avoid them. It’s not appropriate to use NFP with a “contraceptive mentality.” See a similar answer/question here:

catholic.com/quickquestions/is-practicing-natural-family-planning-with-a-contraceptive-mentality-grave-matter-if-

With grace and an active family sacramental life and frequent requests for Mary’s protection, your children will be blessed! And they will be a blessing to the world. Most importantly, with God’s help, one day you will be eternally proud of being the parent of saints in heaven.

 

[BCRaven05]

My view… the more Catholics we can bring into the world, perhaps we can be the change agents for a better world! If we don’t have children, who will lead the world back to the right path? If anything, it seems that this would be more reason to have children, and to raise them right in the Catholic Church.

 

[Usige]

My view… the more Catholics we can bring into the world, perhaps we can be the change agents for a better world! If we don’t have children, who will lead the world back to the right path? If anything, it seems that this would be more reason to have children, and to raise them right in the Catholic Church.

Exactly. We can’t turn the tide by hiding. We need too raise the next generation to stride forth and carry the battle. I joke that we have a large family because the Lord needs more soldiers.

 

[aicirt]

Would delaying pregnancy indefinitely via NFP b/c of the current state of the world and the trends of our nation (think about what happened yesterday) be morally acceptable according to the guidelines of the Church?

It does not seem right to actively seek to bring a child in a world that is becoming more and more corrupt on a daily basis.

Every generation has the same feelings. When was there a time when the world was just right…not too hot, not too cold? We’ve gone through WWI,The Great Depression, Dust Bowl, WWII,atomic bomb, Korea, Cuban missle crisis, Vietnam, civil unrest, scandals, epidemics, disasters, terrorist bombings, Desert Storm, Iraq, Afganistan, floods, tornedos, earthquakes, hurricanes, forest fires,

That’s the last 100 years. None of us would be here if everyone had delayed pregnancy. Love endures.

 

[Seeker1961]

This is a perfect example of where all the political craziness leads. Good grief, to not want to have children because of politics ??? REALLY??

This country has totally lost it’s ability to hold any kind of perspective over the last 20 years. And the worst thing is that attitude is just as prevalent in Catholics! We are setting a terrible example! We should be showing the world that we KNOW who is really in control and be calm and trusting God no matter what.

Greater is He that is in you than he who is in the world!!

 

[Link0126]

Exactly. We can’t turn the tide by hiding. We need too raise the next generation to stride forth and carry the battle. I joke that we have a large family because the Lord needs more soldiers.

But we can’t turn the tide by sheer numbers. Look at how just a few people can now decide our future. What happened yesterday, when you put all the pieces together, was corruption on the scale of Orwell’s 1984. The trend is that we will be soon living in a very evil dictatorship. Sure, we can bring kids into that but to think we will turn the tide by having more kids, even if they do remain for the most part uncorrupted by the culture (no guarantee) it can not be changed by numbers, the very few rule the majority and that’s always the way it’s been.

`

 

[Link0126]

This treads dangerously close to Gnosticism. While there are corrupting forces that exist in the world (and always have and will until the end), the world itself is God’s creation and is by its nature good…

Surely, there’s a point that COULD be reached where we would say “Ok, this situation is so bad it would be wrong to bring a child into this situation”. Are you saying we should attempt to have kids no matter the situation of the world at large, but only our particular financial situation etc?

If money is enough reason or some situation in the home, than a the larger scale of the country seems to be enough as well

 

[Jeanne_S]

I agree with other posters.Place your trust in God. He knows what is best for all of us! Speaking from experience,when we try to be in control,we usually mess things up

 

[cjmclark]

**Surely, there’s a point that COULD be reached where we would say “Ok, this situation is so bad it would be wrong to bring a child into this situation”. **Are you saying we should attempt to have kids no matter the situation of the world at large, but only our particular financial situation etc?

If money is enough reason or some situation in the home, than a the larger scale of the country seems to be enough as well

And what point would that be? I and others have already provided multiple examples of times in history where it would have been easy to say “This is the big one, I’m comin’ Elizabeth!” And yet our ancestors chose to persevere, despite conditions that were far worse than what we face now. If our Catholic forbears can continue on in the face of torture and death for their beliefs, I’m pretty sure I can carry on in the face of an individual health care mandate. The Church (in the person of St. Paul) in fact cautions us against despair (2 Cor 4:7-18):

7 But we hold this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing power may be of God and not from us.
8 We are afflicted in every way, but not constrained; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed;
10 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our body.
11 For we who live are constantly being given up to death for the sake of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
13 Since, then, we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed, therefore I spoke,” we too believe and therefore speak,
14 knowing that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and place us with you in his presence.
15 Everything indeed is for you, so that the grace bestowed in abundance on more and more people may cause the thanksgiving to overflow for the glory of God.
16 Therefore, we are not discouraged; rather, although our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.
17 For this momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,
18 as we look not to what is seen but to what is unseen; for what is seen is transitory, but what is unseen is eternal.

To delay pregnancy for the purposes of actual family planning (whether it be due to financial considerations, medical issues, et c.) is one thing…to delay it indefinitely due to despair at the state of the world is another thing entirely. In the former you are acknowledging your duty to responsibly provide for your family; in the latter you are giving into despair instead of trusting to hope in God’s infinite mercy and wisdom.

 

[Link0126]

well it’s not just the mandate, it’s the entire trend and where all this is logically leading. Like, why create another slave to fuel this corrupt government? Yes, that sounds like a little much now, but at this rate it’s not that far off. Plus, their salvation becomes even more at risk due to living in such perverse times…

 

[cjmclark]

well it’s not just the mandate, it’s the entire trend and where all this is logically leading. Like, why create another slave to fuel this corrupt government? Yes, that sounds like a little much now, but at this rate it’s not that far off. Plus, their salvation becomes even more at risk due to living in such perverse times…

Because our ancestors, some of whom were actually slaves, did so and now we’re here?

Your last statement is also extremely disconcerting. I’m not at all on board with the idea of denying life to my potential children because I have a preconceived notion of their likelihood for salvation. As a father, it’s my vocation to bring them into the world and to teach them as best as I can to be Catholic. But in the end, I have to accept that salvation is ultimately between them and God, and hope that I did my best to teach them. By not having them at all, I’m denying their existence totally and there is as such no hope of salvation whatsoever.

 

[daisybee]

If God leads you to the right person to marry, you will gain more confidence in being able to parent well, with God’s help of course. Parenting, family prayer, choices in schooling, monitoring of a child’s exposure to TV and media, etc. are by far more influential than the world “out there.” Even if someone does stray (God forbid), s/he can be redeemed with great power–look at St. Augustine. Pray about your vocation to marriage and parenthood. Maybe your vocation is not marriage–or maybe it is. If it is, it includes children. Marriage vows include language to the effect of “Will you accept children lovingly?”…etc.

 

[Link0126]

If God leads you to the right person to marry, you will gain more confidence in being able to parent well, with God’s help of course. Parenting, family prayer, choices in schooling, monitoring of a child’s exposure to TV and media, etc. are by far more influential than the world “out there.” Even if someone does stray (God forbid), s/he can be redeemed with great power–look at St. Augustine. Pray about your vocation to marriage and parenthood. Maybe your vocation is not marriage–or maybe it is. If it is, it includes children. Marriage vows include language to the effect of “Will you accept children lovingly?”…etc.

I am married. My wife and I want to have kids, but now we are having our doubts based on this despair we now feel about our country. The fix is in, we are going down the drain. We always planned to adopt anyway as well and help an orphaned child. Maybe we will just do that.

 

[Link0126]

Because our ancestors, some of whom were actually slaves, did so and now we’re here?

but they had kids b/c they didn’t have artificial contraception (not an option we would use anyway) and b/c they didn’t know about NFP. So we really don’t know what their intent was.

 

[daisybee]

This is a rhetorical question–could there be other reasons contributing to your anxiety about having children? For example, maybe there haven’t been many examples of strong marriages around you. Or maybe there is anxiety stemming from other sources. If that’s a possibility, it couldn’t hurt to speak with a priest who you trust or a friend recommends, or a Catholic marriage counselor (many parishes have marriage counselors on staff, and they often offer evening or weekend appointments).

Also, if you have reservations but your wife doesn’t, and especially if this has been ongoing for a while, not addressing this issue could put a severe strain on your marriage. A marriage counselor could definitely help with this.

From Blessed Pope John Paul II: When, on October 22, 1978, I said the words “Be not afraid!” in St. Peter’s Square, I could not fully know how far they would take me and the entire Church. Their meaning came more from the Holy Spirit, the Consoler, promised by the Lord Jesus to His disciples, than from the man who spoke them. Nevertheless, with the passing of the years, I have recalled these words on many occasions. … Why should we have no fear? Because man has been redeemed by God. … The power of Christ’s Cross and Resurrection is greater than any evil which man could or should fear (Threshold of Hope, 1994).

 

[Link0126]

This is a rhetorical question–could there be other reasons contributing to your anxiety about having children? For example, maybe there haven’t been many examples of strong marriages around you. Or maybe there is anxiety stemming from other sources. If that’s a possibility, it couldn’t hurt to speak with a priest who you trust or a friend recommends, or a Catholic marriage counselor (many parishes have marriage counselors on staff, and they often offer evening or weekend appointments).

Also, if you have reservations but your wife doesn’t, and especially if this has been ongoing for a while, not addressing this issue could put a severe strain on your marriage. A marriage counselor could definitely help with this.

From Blessed Pope John Paul II: When, on October 22, 1978, I said the words “Be not afraid!” in St. Peter’s Square, I could not fully know how far they would take me and the entire Church. Their meaning came more from the Holy Spirit, the Consoler, promised by the Lord Jesus to His disciples, than from the man who spoke them. Nevertheless, with the passing of the years, I have recalled these words on many occasions. … Why should we have no fear? Because man has been redeemed by God. … The power of Christ’s Cross and Resurrection is greater than any evil which man could or should fear (Threshold of Hope, 1994).

Both of our parents have been married only once and for over 30 years. I think we are OK in that department. Yes, there are some other concerns that we have. But yes, obviously something is wrong with us if we don’t want to have kids, or have doubts about it… Hilarious! We must have really had some screwed up childhoods or something… Why does everyone with kids act like that… It must be so great having children… they want everyone to have them. Actually, my wife’s friend told us in a moment of honesty “misery loves company”

 

[Miguelita]

I always look at discussions like these and wonder; do people really think the world was a better place in (insert ye olden days date here)