State religion

[ngill09]

I think most people don’t know the details of the court case that made it illegal to have state-sponsored religious indoctrination at schools. In Abington v. Schempp, Schempp, a Unitarian, sued because the state law required that at least 10 verses from the Bible be read every day.

I suspect that if a school board passed a law requiring that all students pray towards Mecca 5 times a day, the same people who whine about not being able to indoctrinate other’s children would have a fit.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

When I was in the 11th grade in Carlsbad, New Mexico, my English teacher decided to give us a thinking exercise. It was St. Anselm’s proof for the existence of God. Do you seriously think such a thinking exercise would be allowed in public schools today?

It sounds like what you are looking for is for Christian theology to be part of public school education.

 

[Salusa]

If I were to babysit your children off and on for 7 years and told them how Christianity was wrong in many, subtle ways…then I told your children how to look at life, how to understand human sexuality, how to understand Nature, Human interactions of every kind…EXCEPT…I never mentioned God, would I not be indoctrinating them into my religion anyway?

Public Education indoctrinates our children with a secular religion. What do you call that secular religion?

No because teaching values and religion to children is a parents job, not a public schools.

There is no such thing as a “secular religion”.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Thinking

**It sounds like what you are looking for is for Christian theology to be part of public school education. **

That’s a stretch. I was merely giving you an example of the kinds of subject matters that today, because of political correctness dominated by atheists, would not be allowed to be discussed in public schools just because God is at the center of those discussions.

Really very ridiculous limitations on free speech.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

ngill

**I suspect that if a school board passed a law requiring that all students pray towards Mecca 5 times a day, the same people who whine about not being able to indoctrinate other’s children would have a fit. **

This is a silly notion. Nobody is asking for prayer time to particular gods. Nobody is looking to start warfare between religions. All religions pretty much worship the same God. Even atheists worship Nogod!

 

[ngill09]

ngill

**I suspect that if a school board passed a law requiring that all students pray towards Mecca 5 times a day, the same people who whine about not being able to indoctrinate other’s children would have a fit. **

This is a silly notion. Nobody is asking for prayer time to particular gods. Nobody is looking to start warfare between religions. All religions pretty much worship the same God. Even atheists worship Nogod!

Then you shouldn’t complain about the court case that “kicked God out of school”. Because the law it overturned did exactly that.

 

[JamesCaruso]

We live in a pluralistic society. Between that and the first amendment I wouldn’t expect any public education classroom to tell you that any religion is correct. Now if you go to a Christian of Muslim private school they may tell you that a specific religion is the correct one, or that even a specific scent or denomination is the correct one .But when you have a classroom of students that are composed of various Christian philosophies, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, and other backgrounds how do you say that any one is right without implicitly saying the others are wrong?

The body of claims that are made by various religions cover a broad set of subject areas. Without trying one can easily say something that is not in line with one of the many religions out there. If you say something about the estimated age of the earth, about the linage of the native Americans, and so on you’ve contradicted the claims of some sects/denominations of some religions even if that is not your attempt.

Separation of church and state has been carried to an absurd degree. Our founding fathers never envisioned it to be like this. We should be allowed to have Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter celebrations. Kids from other faiths should be able to honor their beliefs appropriately in school. Instead of banning any religious acknowledgment in public schools, we should be celebrating our various religious beliefs and cultural diversity in school. By not doing so we have given one small religious sect, or I should say, anti-religious sect, victory over everyone else. That sect is atheism. Every time we determine that a religion cannot have a display, or event, or any kind of acknowledgment, in one of our public schools or government facility, we celebrate atheism. Atheists don’t want any religions to have a voice, and that means that atheism does have a voice each and every time we give atheists their way. I predict that some day religion will return to our government, our public schools and the public in general. This dark period in our nation’s history will come to an end. Someday, people will see secularism for the insanity that it is, and atheist activists for the small group of narrow-minded individuals that they are.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

ngill

**I suspect that if a school board passed a law requiring that all students pray towards Mecca 5 times a day, the same people who whine about not being able to indoctrinate other’s children would have a fit. **
All religions pretty much worship the same God.

Where’d you get a notion like that?

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Separation of church and state has been carried to an absurd degree. Our founding fathers never envisioned it to be like this. We should be allowed to have Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter celebrations.

School and other government offices are closed on the days on which they occur. You can have those celebrations.

Kids from other faiths should be able to honor their beliefs appropriately in school.

They can and do. If a student has a religious practice that they must follow the school can be accommodating. Where I went to school there were areas set aside for the Muslim students to voluntarily pray.

Instead of banning any religious acknowledgment in public schools

They are not banned. But they are not sponsored by the school either.

Atheists don’t want any religions to have a voice

That would be anti-theist. But that’s another topic.

 

[JamesCaruso]

No, it’s because of the multitude of faiths within the public system. If I were in a Catholic school, talking about God would be fine, as most people attending would be Catholic.

All that said, the students should be able to talk about God at school, so long as the teachers don’t show preference/intolerance to other religions.

Absolutely. Students are allowed to talk about not-God, so it follows they should be able to talk about God. The atheists should not be allowed to set out agenda, whether it be in our schools or anywhere else in the public sector. For those who believe, God is in every aspect of our lives, in our schools, in every branch of government, in our business world. To deny this is to deny ourselves. Seems foolish to me. Atheists don’t have to talk about God, but religious people should be allowed to. That is really what religious freedom is all about. It’s not the exclusion of religion, it’s the free expression of religion that this country was founded upon. It is a state-mandated religion that our system forbids, not the practice of religion, nor the practice of that religion anywhere we please to practice it.

 

[SachieWhitby]

When I was in public high school, I had an English teacher that had us read as much as certain parts of the bible as we could for the first month. We were to treat it as if it was a book of literature [which was probably to keep the teacher from getting into trouble] but the point of this exercise was because all of the stuff were were going to have to read, understand, write essays on, take tests on etc etc all made references to the Bible here and there. We couldn’t be expected to understand what we were reading if we didn’t understand those references.

I severely doubt that such a reading assignment would go over well in the current public schools.

 

[JamesCaruso]

School and other government offices are closed on the days on which they occur. You can have those celebrations.

Sure you can… and you should not be forbidden to celebrate them the day before, or the week before either, and both on school property. The only thing that is required is that the state does not mandate any particular religion. Other than that, religious people should feel free acknowledge their religion anywhere they please, and that means in public schools and public buildings, and public places, so long as it is not obnoxious, in your face, rude, disruptive or anything of that sort. The atheists should feel free talk about their secular, no-God stuff, and the religious folks should feel free to talk about their religious, God-centered stuff.

They can and do. If a student has a religious practice that they must follow the school can be accommodating. Where I went to school there were areas set aside for the Muslim students to voluntarily pray.

And not just in ways that you happen to feel are appropriate. If a large number of students are Christian, they should be able to set up a display, such as a Bethlehem scene, or Pilgrim thanksgiving scene, I don’t at all buy the “nothing religious in a public space” line of argument. It was not envisioned so by our founding fathers and it is inappropriate to deny public expression of religion even in a public school, government office or other public space. I believe it is petty mindedness to object to such things.

They are not banned. But they are not sponsored by the school either.

No one is asking the school to sponsor anything, only to allow the free acknowledgment of religious expressions on campus. If the kids want a Christmas tree, they should be allowed it. And even the school should be allowed to “sponsor” a Christmas tree if a large number of students are Christian, or a Menorah.if many of the students are Jewish. To not allow these things, even by the school administration, is petty mindedness. We have to stop letting the tail wag the dog, that is, a small minority of atheists or secularists setting the agenda for public policy. Secularists and atheists are like religions unto themselves, and it they number enough, they can have their displays as well, so long as they are not disrespectful or rudely done. I just do not buy the argument that everything in the public sector must be strictly secular. It is sick for the majority of people to be required to deny that which is central to their lives in the public sector. Our Declaration of Independence acknowledges our Creator, which to me is sufficient grounds for any public office, department, or official to do the same,

That would be anti-theist. But that’s another topic.

There is a very small but very loud group of atheists who do not want any religions to be given expression in a public place or facility. This is nonsense. I don’t subscribe to the theory that the mention of God, or the expression of religious traditions, do not belong in the public sector. It is bad policy that the ten commandments cannot be displayed in a courthouse, or that a Christmas tree or Bethlehem scene cannot be displayed in a public square,. It is a large part of our country’s heritage and culture and should not be denied. A large part of the problem is that far too many secularists have found their way into the court system and governmental positions and held the country hostage to their minority views.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Separation of church and state has been carried to an absurd degree. Our founding fathers never envisioned it to be like this. We should be allowed to have Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter celebrations. Kids from other faiths should be able to honor their beliefs appropriately in school. Instead of banning any religious acknowledgment in public schools, we should be celebrating our various religious beliefs and cultural diversity in school. By not doing so we have given one small religious sect, or I should say, anti-religious sect, victory over everyone else. That sect is atheism. Every time we determine that a religion cannot have a display, or event, or any kind of acknowledgment, in one of our public schools or government facility, we celebrate atheism. Atheists don’t want any religions to have a voice, and that means that atheism does have a voice each and every time we give atheists their way. I predict that some day religion will return to our government, our public schools and the public in general. This dark period in our nation’s history will come to an end. Someday, people will see secularism for the insanity that it is, and atheist activists for the small group of narrow-minded individuals that they are.

I basically agree with all of this.

Just allow ALL religious viewpoints in school. Even the atheistic ones.

Good job, Caruso.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

With Catholicism being about 23.9% of the Christian population (total 78.4%) in the U.S. I’m pretty sure that Catholicism wouldn’t be the version of Christianity that would be presented in most public schools.

religions.pewforum.org/reports

 

[InJesusItrust]

No because teaching values and religion to children is a parents job, not a public schools.

There is no such thing as a “secular religion”.

I take exception to this. The purpose of school is to snatch children from parents and instill values.

When I came to an Indian school I realized I had learned so little educational content that I couldn’t keep up with actual academics.

 

[TEPO]

If I were to babysit your children off and on for 7 years and told them how Christianity was wrong in many, subtle ways…then I told your children how to look at life, how to understand human sexuality, how to understand Nature, Human interactions of every kind…EXCEPT…I never mentioned God, would I not be indoctrinating them into my religion anyway?

Public Education indoctrinates our children with a secular religion. What do you call that secular religion?

I’ve coined a new term for this! I call it: Melting Pot Theology. The reason I call it that is because the Progressives always match religions, cultures and science up against each other in order to find solutions on ONE system that works for EVERY different way of life. What they don’t understand is that these ‘solutions’ actually become meaningless because they don’t mean anything to anyone… They exist outside of the naturally developed cultures that have taken thousands of years to develop. this new ‘culture’ is created synthetically typically within ten years or so. Its purpose is primarily used only as a measuring tool to validate social anarchy.

 

[TEPO]

There is a very small but very loud group of atheists who do not want any religions to be given expression in a public place or facility. This is nonsense. I don’t subscribe to the theory that the mention of God, or the expression of religious traditions, do not belong in the public sector. It is bad policy that the ten commandments cannot be displayed in a courthouse, or that a Christmas tree or Bethlehem scene cannot be displayed in a public square,. It is a large part of our country’s heritage and culture and should not be denied. A large part of the problem is that far too many secularists have found their way into the court system and governmental positions and held the country hostage to their minority views.

The culture of Atheism is nothing more than just that… It’s a culture, one out of many hundreds, or thousands of other cultures. What i don’t understand is why some people think that this culture should be allowed to dominate all others?

…also, there is no room for cultures that are intolerant of religion. These types of cultures are self destructive.

 

[TEPO]

It is called Freemasonry.

yes!

Freemasonry is in fact a conspiracy against the Catholic Church.

:nope: Nope!

According to the official infallible teachings of the Church, all Catholic Freemasons face immediate automatic excommunication. In other words, it is a mortal sin to join the Freemasons.

 

[Pugsly]

No because teaching values and religion to children is a parents job, not a public schools.

There is no such thing as a “secular religion”.

Radical liberalism has been in a trench fight with classical liberalism for the last 150 years…and Radical liberalism has won because it has made the long march into the institutions…while evangelizing the populace through the schools and culture.

For example…radical liberal, Alfred Kinsey’s greatly manipulated data (to mainstream illicit sex as “natural”) is now established as the foundation of your child’s sex training.
For example…environmental, evolutionary theory and historical perspectives have often been stretched beyond all tenable scientific discipline…to reinforce Radical liberalism.

Radical liberalism is currently doing its most devastating work…redefining the core of American civilization…through the destruction of marriage and the new relationship of the individual to the State through Obamacare. Radical liberals are already writing books (like “It Takes a Village”) and giving talks on how parents need to get over the idea that children are “theirs”.

 

[Pugsly]

With Catholicism being about 23.9% of the Christian population (total 78.4%) in the U.S. I’m pretty sure that Catholicism wouldn’t be the version of Christianity that would be presented in most public schools.

religions.pewforum.org/reports

I am firmly against public schools preaching values of any kind…which is antithetical to the very nature of school itself…therefore…I’m completely against public schools. There should be a vast voucher program and some baseline educational standards applied.