State religion

[Charlemagne_II]

Pugsly

Rest assured that sooner or later home schooling will be defeated by various measures, including requirement for testing by leftist testers, leftist selection and required purchase of texts by leftist authors, annual counseling sessions with leftist counselors, verification of test scores by leftist verifiers, and home visits by the leftist IRS.

Leftist Chicago Mafia politics courtesy of your individual income taxes.

No aspect of the education of our children will be left unmolested by the leftist thugs.

 

[Pugsly]

Pugsly

Rest assured that sooner or later home schooling will be defeated by various measures, including requirement for testing by leftist testers, leftist selection and required purchase of texts by leftist authors, annual counseling sessions with leftist counselors, verification of test scores by leftist verifiers, and home visits by the leftist IRS.

Leftist Chicago Mafia politics courtesy of your individual income taxes.

No aspect of the education of our children will be left unmolested by the leftist thugs.

The real war on homeschools begins with homosexuality as normative...gay marriage....thus, "intolerance" elevated to the level of child abuse....and homeschools portrayed as bastions of intolerance and child abuse.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Well, they had that diversity in 1947. The public schools generally reflected the religious opinions of the people whom they served. This real diversity was gradually suppressed by the Courts in favor of a “neutrality,” which is really a reflection of the views of John Dewey. It is rare that the views of a person so unfamiliar to the public should have such power over public attitudes, but everyone who is trained to be a teacher is imbued with his views although they are almost never attributed to him. He is the father is progressive education, which rejects the very idea of objective truth.

And neutrality is not neutral as it favors the opinion of a small minority of voters. Neutrality is the code word for “no God in the schools.”

Real neutrality would be to allow the expression of various beliefs. Let the Christians have their manger scene. Let the Jews have their Menorah. Let the Muslims have their “whatever” because I don’t know what symbol or expression they would like to display. Let the atheists celebrate Reason or whatever their particular thing is. Let everything be done in good taste, respecting the diversity of religious views and non-religious views. I don’t say celebrate the diversity in this case as I would for, say, a diversity of national ancestry, but I do say, celebrate the freedom to express the diversity of views. I would never celebrate atheism, but I will celebrate a person’s right to express his atheistic view all the day long. Religious freedom covers the religious as well as the atheist and agnostic.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

And neutrality is not neutral as it favors the opinion of a small minority of voters. Neutrality is the code word for “no God in the schools.”

Real neutrality would be to allow the expression of various beliefs. Let the Christians have their manger scene. Let the Jews have their Menorah. Let the Muslims have their “whatever” because I don’t know what symbol or expression they would like to display. Let the atheists celebrate Reason or whatever their particular thing is. Let everything be done in good taste, respecting the diversity of religious views and non-religious views. I don’t say celebrate the diversity in this case as I would for, say, a diversity of national ancestry, but I do say, celebrate the freedom to express the diversity of views. I would never celebrate atheism, but I will celebrate a person’s right to express his atheistic view all the day long. Religious freedom covers the religious as well as the atheist and agnostic.

I disagree. I think it would be more damaging than helpful to a child’s religious education.

When I went to college and studied Christianity academically and other religions comparatively it was more damaging to my own faith. The three Abrahamic religions only Christianity sees Jesus as God. Islam looks at him as a prophet and Jews a false messiah. Then the purely academic view of Jesus as a mythologized wandering preacher.

I think it much easier to control the message if done at home, Church and/or CCD/Parochial School. Attending parochial school the only people that I was aware of that weren’t Christians were Jews, in my child’s mind couldn’t understand why they were still Jewish. I received a singular message about Jesus and the Catholic church.

 

[ngill09]

And neutrality is not neutral as it favors the opinion of a small minority of voters. Neutrality is the code word for “no God in the schools.”

Real neutrality would be to allow the expression of various beliefs. Let the Christians have their manger scene. Let the Jews have their Menorah. Let the Muslims have their “whatever” because I don’t know what symbol or expression they would like to display. Let the atheists celebrate Reason or whatever their particular thing is. Let everything be done in good taste, respecting the diversity of religious views and non-religious views. I don’t say celebrate the diversity in this case as I would for, say, a diversity of national ancestry, but I do say, celebrate the freedom to express the diversity of views. I would never celebrate atheism, but I will celebrate a person’s right to express his atheistic view all the day long. Religious freedom covers the religious as well as the atheist and agnostic.

This is the secular position. Again, I don’t understand what you’re arguing against, because most secularists are are not arguing that no one should be able to have religious expression. They are arguing against administrative favoritism.

 

[ngill09]

Well, they had that diversity in 1947. The public schools generally reflected the religious opinions of the people whom they served. This real diversity was gradually suppressed by the Courts in favor of a “neutrality,” which is really a reflection of the views of John Dewey. It is rare that the views of a person so unfamiliar to the public should have such power over public attitudes, but everyone who is trained to be a teacher is imbued with his views although they are almost never attributed to him. He is the father is progressive education, which rejects the very idea of objective truth.

Strange. My public school education involved a lot of things being taught as objectively true. Scientific facts, mathematical relationships, historical events, grammatical rules - all taught as objectively true. I think this type of “progressive education” doesn’t exist outside the imaginations of the paranoid.

 

[ngill09]

Homeschooling is under assualt in Europe…especially Germany and France…and the Leftists here in America are already mumbling about homeschools here.

The Family is THE most powerful structure and institution in any civilization…therefore those who see (Enlightenment philosophies) collective effort as socially redemptive…despise the Family…and seek to atomize individuals to the will of the State.

Thus, this administration’s push for the redefinition of marriage…mandatory preschool…and Eric Holder fighting a German couple’s assylum from (religious persecution) as part of setting an anti-homeschool judgment in the American courts.

The liberal agenda according paranoid Catholics (not all Catholics):

1. Undermine civilization
2. ???
3. Profit

 

[JamesCaruso]

I disagree. I think it would be more damaging than helpful to a child’s religious education.

When I went to college and studied Christianity academically and other religions comparatively it was more damaging to my own faith. The three Abrahamic religions only Christianity sees Jesus as God. Islam looks at him as a prophet and Jews a false messiah. Then the purely academic view of Jesus as a mythologized wandering preacher.

I think it much easier to control the message if done at home, Church and/or CCD/Parochial School. Attending parochial school the only people that I was aware of that weren’t Christians were Jews, in my child’s mind couldn’t understand why they were still Jewish. I received a singular message about Jesus and the Catholic church.

Naturally, the details of one’s faith are best dealt with in the home and in the parochial school/CCD. I am not talking about the details being presented in the public school. A mere acknowledgment of God in the public school setting does no harm to the youthful mind. A manger scene, a menorah, or other such symbols of religious belief, also do no harm. Better to begin slowly working in the diversity of the world around us than putting our children’s heads totally in the sand. “Mommy, what’s a Jew?” is a question that can be handled by parents at home, just as “How are babies made?” Our job as parents is to educate our children in the reality of the world, not shelter them from such knowledge.

It was wrong for me to grow up in white America, so sheltered from the black race (segregation) that I thought God made black men to dig ditches and black women to clean white people’s houses, since that is the only context in which I was allowed to see them. For me, they were a different kind of human, brutish, dirty and not bright, incapable of being educated or standing in equality with whites. When I as a young man met a black man who had a college education and taught school, spoke with refinement and intelligence,I was dumbfounded. How can this be? The social construct didn’t fit. By segregating me, I had been lied to.

You mentioned your college experience. At that age you need to study the world around you. It may challenge your faith, but it is a necessary rite of passage. I am not recommending anything at all like that at the grade or high school levels.

 

[migueltojose]

joko

I have never had a teacher tell me that religion is wrong.

I’ll bet you never had a teacher in a public school tell you religion is right.

The fact that God is not allowed to be mentioned in the public school means they are telling you there’s something about religion that isn’t right.

I wouldn’t say that. It could be true in some instances but I’d say it’s more like …there are many religions, it’s a controversial subject and therefore we aren’t going to promote one over the other or stir up controversy so we leave the subject pretty much alone…

Certainly teachers may lean to the left a bit. But, it is the responsibility of the parents to instill values (hopefully Catholic Christian) in their children or send them to private school (I know I know it’s very expensive) or at least Sunday School and the weekly Celebration of Mass.

I’ll bet the percentage of liberal (anti-old establishment) teachers and Catholic parents of public school kids who don’t go to Church or send their kids to Sunday School are similar. …about 75%…

 

[Pugsly]

The liberal agenda according paranoid Catholics (not all Catholics):

1. Undermine civilization
2. ???
3. Profit

Ngill, on this philosophy board it is assumed that you have a some understanding of Enlightenment philosophies…atleast enough…not to call people “paranoid” who are merely referencing the 500 year assault/displacement of Christianity from the Public Square.

Am I “paranoid” to suggest that radical liberalism seeks to collapse civilization in order to rebuild…? You might benefit to understand the Cloward and Piven technique of “overwhelming the system”…then look at how the Obama administration walked into a bad financial situation and made it far worse.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

Am I “paranoid” to suggest that radical liberalism seeks to collapse civilization in order to rebuild…? You might benefit to understand the Cloward and Piven technique of “overwhelming the system”…then look at how the Obama administration walked into a bad financial situation and made it far worse.

It does smack of Glen Beck who is does come across as paranoid.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

Naturally, the details of one’s faith are best dealt with in the home and in the parochial school/CCD. I am not talking about the details being presented in the public school. A mere acknowledgment of God in the public school setting does no harm to the youthful mind. A manger scene, a menorah, or other such symbols of religious belief, also do no harm. Better to begin slowly working in the diversity of the world around us than putting our children’s heads totally in the sand. “Mommy, what’s a Jew?” is a question that can be handled by parents at home, just as “How are babies made?” Our job as parents is to educate our children in the reality of the world, not shelter them from such knowledge.

It was wrong for me to grow up in white America, so sheltered from the black race (segregation) that I thought God made black men to dig ditches and black women to clean white people’s houses, since that is the only context in which I was allowed to see them. For me, they were a different kind of human, brutish, dirty and not bright, incapable of being educated or standing in equality with whites. When I as a young man met a black man who had a college education and taught school, spoke with refinement and intelligence,I was dumbfounded. How can this be? The social construct didn’t fit. By segregating me, I had been lied to.

You mentioned your college experience. At that age you need to study the world around you. It may challenge your faith, but it is a necessary rite of passage. I am not recommending anything at all like that at the grade or high school levels.

In our school district Jewish holidays are observed because of a large Jewish population. It’s hard to say the day off is in observance of Yom Kippur without acknowledging religion. So maybe our experience is different from yours.

 

[JamesCaruso]

In our school district Jewish holidays are observed because of a large Jewish population. It’s hard to say the day off is in observance of Yom Kippur without acknowledging religion. So maybe our experience is different from yours.

Roscoe, And are you saying that is a good thing or a bad thing, the observance of Jewish holidays? I would say that it is perfectly appropriate, especially since its borne out of a practical necessity. Your area, BTW, sounds a lot like where my wife hails from, NYC. Peace. James

 

[JamesCaruso]

It does smack of Glen Beck who is does come across as paranoid.

Roscoe,
The comment regarding Beck may be on the money, but the reference to C&P may be at least partially in play as well. Such principles must be in the tool bag of a number of well educated liberals, the degree to which they are used varying greatly. .A conservative, otoh, has far less use for such concepts in that he is far more comfortable with the status quo, don’t you think? Peace. James

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

Roscoe, And are you saying that is a good thing or a bad thing, the observance of Jewish holidays? I would say that it is perfectly appropriate, especially since its borne out of a practical necessity. Your area, BTW, sounds a lot like where my wife hails from, NYC. Peace. James

Yes, people would take the day off regardless. I know the kids appreciate a day off whatever the reason. I pointed it out to say that there is no masking that it is a religious holiday,which was what be argued was lacking from a diversity stand point.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

Roscoe,
The comment regarding Beck may be on the money, but the reference to C&P may be at least partially in play as well. Such principles must be in the tool bag of a number of well educated liberals, the degree to which they are used varying greatly. .A conservative, otoh, has far less use for such concepts in that he is far more comfortable with the status quo, don’t you think? Peace. James

Are you saying promoting paranoia is a tool of conservatives?

 

[JamesCaruso]

Yes, people would take the day off regardless. I know the kids appreciate a day off whatever the reason. I pointed it out to say that there is no masking that it is a religious holiday,which was what be argued was lacking from a diversity stand point.

Okay. I get that. Thanks.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Are you saying promoting paranoia is a tool of conservatives?

Haha Roscoe, Beck is not a typical conservative. He is how should I say a bit overboard, possibly in part due to his religious affiliation. He does his homework and he knows an awful lot but you have to take what he says and “de-conspirator-ize” it, and try to distill whatever the truth really is and how it pertains to current events. What he might call conspiracy, I might call advocacy. Wealthy people he refers to like George Soros, and those he doesn’t refer to on the conservative side, I am sure do plenty to try to influence the world in the direction they would like to see it go. A billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you’re talking about real money. If some obscenely wealthy individuals have a secular agenda for this country and for the world, it only underlines for me, a Catholic, Satan’s power over the world. I take St. Padre Pio’s advice to heart, “Pray, hope and don’t worry.” Besides, I’ve seen the script and read the ending, and I can assure you it will all work out just fine. Peace. James

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

I take St. Padre Pio’s advice to heart, “Pray, hope and don’t worry.” Besides, I’ve seen the script and read the ending, and I can assure you it will all work out just fine. Peace. James

I agree. I do find it strange when people of faith are scared about the state of the world. It shows a lack of faith in my opinion. Relax, enjoy the gift of life.

 

[RobbyS]

Strange. My public school education involved a lot of things being taught as objectively true. Scientific facts, mathematical relationships, historical events, grammatical rules - all taught as objectively true. I think this type of “progressive education” doesn’t exist outside the imaginations of the paranoid.

What you “think” is powerfully conditioned by your personal experience, which you must admit is limited. Somewhere along the way you failed to learn the difference between truth that transcends that experience and truth which simply accords with it. Dewey did not believe in the former. Rather he said that the objects you are talking about is instrumental to your learning, but they have no existence apart from your mind. Therefore they have no real claim on you and it is up to you to validate them or reject them. Of course, in general you will hold to the same views as your peer group to the extent that you and they share a common experience.