Stations by clowns vent

[puzzleannie]

why are you bringing up a clown Mass, in another diocese, in this context? the discussion was about a non-liturgical situation, where some school children were presenting a production for other school children. It was not about a clown Mass, so save that tired old video for another thread.

 

[Dauphin]

why are you bringing up a clown Mass, in another diocese, in this context? the discussion was about a non-liturgical situation, where some school children were presenting a production for other school children. It was not about a clown Mass, so save that tired old video for another thread.

ok… what exactly is the PURPOSE of dressing up as a clown to do anything remotely religious??? I just don’t get it. It’s just about the most brain-dead concept I’ve ever encountered.

 

[puzzleannie]

I’m not defending it necessarily, I am trying to give a broader picture of what OP’s kids may have encountered in their diocese, and asking why an irrelevant event in another diocese has been introduced into the discussion. Would it not be more productive to discuss what actually happened and what OPs kids actually saw before venturing and opinion?

 

[Dauphin]

I’m not defending it necessarily, I am trying to give a broader picture of what OP’s kids may have encountered in their diocese, and asking why an irrelevant event in another diocese has been introduced into the discussion. Would it not be more productive to discuss what actually happened and what OPs kids actually saw before venturing and opinion?

I think the clown mass is relevant to understanding the ‘clown phenomenon’ as a whole. It can help us to understand what sort of mental illness compels people to dress up as a clown for any religious event of any kind.

Can anyone explain what motivates these people? Where did this idea originate?

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I think it’s sad that the priest just laughed off the gentleman who said something. I can only imagine how long he had been sitting there angry.

 

[fullofzeal]

when my kids were in Catholic schools in Cleveland they and some of their friends worked with an eastside suburban parish that had a clown ministry. NO they never had a clown Mass in all the years of our association. They did have events for children and families, worked with deaf children, even provided assistance for girl scouts to get a merit badge, visited hospitalized children, visited children in a residential facility for the profoundly retarded, ran programs like a safety awareness, bicycle rodeo, day camp.

They also did bible based dramas (think Godspell, a popular 70s musical where the actors were dressed as clowns) for youth groups and other parish events. And yes, in that vein, they did do an enactment of the stations of the cross, it came to our parish for several years, and many other surrounding parishes. I saw it many times, it was very reverently done, in mime, and extremely moveing, reverent, faithful to gospel narrative and tradition, in no way lampooned or made fun of the gospel characters or events, least of all Christ.

If you found Godspell irreverent and blasphemous, you would also have problems with this production. If you consider Godspell not exactly your cup of tea, but nonetheless a valid way for some people to express their reaction to the gospel events, you will be able to see how this production could benefit some people, not as a replacement for the traditional way of the cross devotion, but as another way of viewing and thinking about the events.

“Oh look honey the clowns are doing the stations…now isn’t this a neat WAY TO LOOK AT THE PASSION OF CHRIST… It’s amazing , I mean clowns nailing the gospel narrative, and all along we were saddled to the stations done that silly reverent way at our parish…now this is what I call diversity, yes indeed, and oh look at the kids and how their now able to express their reactions to the passion. It certainly is a new way of looking at things , now isn’t it.” Clowns are for the circus, the fair, juniors birthday, old folks in nursing homes maybe, although if I’m in a nursing home the last thing I want to see is some contrived act of clowns trying to cheer me up but that’s just me, I think clowns in nursing homes and for handicapped children are good … but clowns in church are, CONTRIVED, MAUDLIN NONSENSE.

as always…peace

 

[Marian_Carroll]

Folks: The clown Mass was discussed at great length elsewhere in the forum. This thread concerns another event at another place.

 

[dylanschrader]

If I am correct, clowns, “liturgical dance”, and the like are not allowed at Mass. I am not aware of it being forbidden outside of Mass. Anyone who is much more familiar on this, please correct me if I’m wrong.

The Stations of the Cross are not liturgical and are not governed by liturgical law, but a little common sense and some taste go a long way.

 

[fix]

They also did bible based dramas (think Godspell, a popular 70s musical where the actors were dressed as clowns) for youth groups and other parish events. And yes, in that vein, they did do an enactment of the stations of the cross, it came to our parish for several years, and many other surrounding parishes. I saw it many times, it was very reverently done, in mime, and extremely moveing, reverent, faithful to gospel narrative and tradition, in no way lampooned or made fun of the gospel characters or events, least of all Christ.

If you found Godspell irreverent and blasphemous, you would also have problems with this production. If you consider Godspell not exactly your cup of tea, but nonetheless a valid way for some people to express their reaction to the gospel events, you will be able to see how this production could benefit some people, not as a replacement for the traditional way of the cross devotion, but as another way of viewing and thinking about the events.

Yes, you have presented the opposing view well. I would imagine that is exactly how it would be defended by those who support such nonsense.

Would you not think the word profane is needed here? Not all expressions are valid or worthy despite how many people may “feel” they are called to act in such ways.

May favorite bumper sticker: Just because no one understands you does not make you an artist.

I would change that for this case to say just because one thinks they need to express themselves in some absurd way does not make such an expression legitimate.

Now, I will wait for people to mention the history of clowns and the middle ages and all that. It just does not seem in any way correct to have novelty simply because people desire it.

 

[puzzleannie]

again, none of those except myself and children of OP have seen the production of the group to which she refers, which I am assuming to be the same group, since I only know of one in her area. Since you have not seen it, and she has not described it we can offer no assumptions about the content, reverence or general tone of the production. Would it not be better to find out about the actual event before commenting?

 

[fix]

If they dress as clowns that is enough to call it incorrect. Outward appearance is no small element to consider.

 

[setter]

She did however mention “diversity” and I let it kind of go because the other cath school alternative is “fast times at ridgemont high”. It ain’t easy being a revert father of two kids who seem to be being "indoctrinated "as it were, at every turn.

“diversity” is code for the Trojan Horse of non-discriminating “tolerance” for lifestyles that contradict Catholic values.

My suggestion: Stick to your guns, get involved, develop relationships with faculty and other parents, and exert influence with others to bring about positive change and accountability in accord with the mission of the Church.

 

[setter]

“Oh look honey the clowns are doing the stations…now isn’t this a neat WAY TO LOOK AT THE PASSION OF CHRIST… It’s amazing , I mean clowns nailing the gospel narrative, and all along we were saddled to the stations done that silly reverent way at our parish…now this is what I call diversity, yes indeed, and oh look at the kids and how their now able to express their reactions to the passion. It certainly is a new way of looking at things , now isn’t it.” Clowns are for the circus, the fair, juniors birthday, old folks in nursing homes maybe, although if I’m in a nursing home the last thing I want to see is some contrived act of clowns trying to cheer me up but that’s just me, I think clowns in nursing homes and for handicapped children are good … but clowns in church are, CONTRIVED, MAUDLIN NONSENSE.

as always…peace

Well stated …let us not be duped into sending a confused message to our children.

 

[Brendan]

Edit: ok, it was in Oakland, and they weren’t distributing the Eucharist, they were acting. I confused this with another story.

Edit #2: Oakland diocese, California. I was right

Please note that is BEFORE the arrival of Bishop Vigneron, the current Ordinary of the Diocese of Oakland,

Bishop Vigneron is a rock solid bishop

 

[cheeto1]

The saddest thing is I’m bringing my kids up in a church that I’m teaching them to love, and at every turn it’s something else. Ireally try to buffer my incredulity when I’m with them at mass or things to do with their school…It’s always something. So I tell them that it’s just wrong that these flipping CLOWNS were miming or whatever the HOLY-STATIONS-OF-OUR-LORDS-PASSION and they look at me with sadness…like *they let me *down or something…I’m soooooo sick of this. At election time it was 8th graders hanging “KERRY FOR PRESIDENT” banners in the halls as part of their government class. This *&%# is going on in every cath school around us. And my kids, what of them, and every other kid…it breaks my heart that I have to raise warriors for the faith to fight error IN THE FAITH??? I’m sick. I will be rising up somehow, someway to be a voice to be heard…SOOOOON!!! For OUR FAITH For our kids
enough is enough

peace

I understand and agree with you. We expect more from our
Catholic school, like reverence for a start. It’s confusing why
so many blatantly baffling things happen in Catholic school,
but wait. There are things happening in the Catholic school
that will never happen in the public school. One of the most
precious things is prayer. The children pray together and for
each other and are raised up for this to be a natural habit of
people. This is no small treasure to give our children. Now,
can you imagine a public school field trip to a church for a
mass? Yet they do it every week in Catholic school, and are
trained to have different jobs in the mass. The experience of
sharing mass with all your friends from school is invaluable
and not offered in public school where it might be thought
strange.

There is no one who can cancel a clown stations of the cross
but you, and you can’t actually cancel it. But, you can give your
opinion to the principal of the school. Pray first, and you may
say something in that meeting that changes their mind for
future productions. Even with the clown stations of the cross,
the public school is not more holy. Even with all its problems,
the Catholic school is the holier choice. If I ever had the money
to use the Catholic schools again, I hope there would still be
some parents like you left.

I understand puzzle annie and want to agree, but I just don’t.
Jesus just doesn’t deserve the “honor” of being dressed as a
clown, especially when reenacting his death.

 

[bear06]

Can anyone explain what motivates these people? Where did this idea originate?

The only thing I can think of is the story of “The Clown of God” or the “Juggler of Notre Dame”. Beautiful story but to start “clown ministries” because of it is very silly. The story had absolutely nothing to do with Mass, any of the other sacraments, Stations, etc. It’s just another feel good distraction.

 

[bear06]

Please note that is BEFORE the arrival of Bishop Vigneron, the current Ordinary of the Diocese of Oakland,

Bishop Vigneron is a rock solid bishop

Yes, please do make this note. He knew this was happening the second he walked into the diocese. Things are much better now (although sometimes when he stamps out one hotspot another one he wouldn’t have imagined pops up.)

 

[axolotl]

I just can’t beleive it. The diocese of Cleveland needs many prayers.

peace

That’s for sure. I’m dying to know the school. Padua? Gilmour? St Joseph?

You should attend a talk by J Glenn Murray sometime. He’s the diocesan liturgist. His presentation on the Communion Rite is very…enlightening.

Or attend the Fest.

 

[fullofzeal]

As a Dad and spiritual leader of my house I’ll do what I can. I’m not going to grill my kids about the clown event though, because I don’t want to play into the evil ones hands as coming across to them as tyrant. I’ll leave it alone now and re-intro it later and speak out(to others) in favor of reverence and orthodoxy, giving examples, and will charitably give examples of current erronious thought regarding things holy. I respect all who posted and I’ll keep* you* posted. I hope to enter into the public speaking arena soon, if it’s God’s will. Pray for me if you have a spare minute.

peace,
George

 

[fullofzeal]

That’s for sure. I’m dying to know the school. Padua? Gilmour? St Joseph?

You should attend a talk by J Glenn Murray sometime. He’s the diocesan liturgist. His presentation on the Communion Rite is very…enlightening.

Or attend the Fest.

Then die you must…kidding. I can’t name schools out of respect and I don’t intend to gossip, even if the school is liberal. That would be a sin. I do agree with the other poster who said that Cath schools are still better than public because of the things they do get right…But that doesn’t excuse parents and church leaders from getting involved to make changes. There is a list that most people would feel comfortable in presenting as a new approach to “the old things” … things that work and are faithful to Holy Mother Church. I know outside of liturgy there is no defined
protocol as to what is prudent or no, but that’s the problem…relativism, as a whole, says that we can somehow adapt reverance to areas that have nothing to do anything as such. Oh well, fight on.

peace