Stations of the Cross... 20 years later

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Fizendell

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With heart-pounding and knees shaking, I managed to walk into the local church and attend Stations on Friday evening.

While I am pleased that the words haven’t changed, plenty of other things have.

I’m not too sure about “Church in the round” - I get that it provides everyone with a good view and it’s cozy… but not the long church with the altar at the front that I remember.

Altar girls? While it’s odd to see, I suppose I didn’t notice after the second station. When did people start following them around instead of staying in the pews? Different. Oh… and why was the man who was leading the stations wearing a suit? Was he the priest? No collar? No garments?

When did the giant, fountain-like pool replace the small holy water basins? Where did the candles go? No candles anywhere. No statues… and no stained-glass windows. Not even one. And… umm… what’s with the bongo drums?

Yes, I only attended Stations of the Cross… and while no one played the bongos, I could see that after only twenty years, plenty has changed. Last night, I finished a book called, “It’s Not the Same Without You” by Mitch Finley. If there’s anyone else in these forums who is thinking about returning to the Church, this was a great book.

I can understand that if someone left during the changes of V-II, today’s church would be a severe shock to the system, but for me… it’s only been since the 80’s. Was the Church I went to as a teenager really that conservative?

I am also beginning to accept that things change… people change, cities change, towns change… there’s no reason for the Catholic Church to stay the same. But bongos? Am I really that conservative? I don’t know.

I’m sure there’s someone out there who’s ready to tell me I’m nit-picking and looking for excuses. I know… I am. But more importantly, I am looking for a shred of something familiar so that ‘going home’ isn’t so scary.

My husband tells me I should just go to the Cathedral… he’s probably right. It’s only about twenty minutes into St. Paul… so twenty minutes for twenty years? Sounds about right! I’d hoped to feel at home with the church in our parish though.

So, if there’s anyone else out there who’s “returning” - did any of these things bother you… or am I just being petty?

=)
Fiz
 
I returned in 2000.
Look closely, I think the words may also have changed, by ommission, not just commission.
I had to go thru 4 parishes before I found ANY familiarity with the church I last attended in 1981.
It was a blessing when I found it…30 miles from home.
Like the article says:
“If it says St xxxxxxxxx COMMUNITY” beware.
“If there is no crucified Christ dominant at the altar” back off.
By the things you have noticed, you should should rightly be sceptical.
Re: Stations…
Print this out and take it with you.
Or here .
Compare it to the parish version. I went to one that filled nearly the whole recital with “social justice” pleadings, and how each station represented some lesson on social justice and humanist desires.
 
I returned in 2000.
Look closely, I think the words may also have changed, by ommission, not just commission.
I had to go thru 4 parishes before I found ANY familiarity with the church I last attended in 1981.
It was a blessing when I found it…30 miles from home.
Like the article says:
“If it says St xxxxxxxxx COMMUNITY” beware.
“If there is no crucified Christ dominant at the altar” back off.
By the things you have noticed, you should should rightly be sceptical.
Re: Stations…
Print this out and take it with you.
Or here .
Here is one made up in 1991 and promoted by the US bishops’ Conference.
Compare it to the parish version. I went to one that filled nearly the whole recital with “social justice” pleadings, and how each station represented some lesson on social justice and humanist desires.
 
In our parish on the last part of our station of the cross from scripture booklet there is a section about the indulgences you recieve. It says,

"A plenary indulgence is granted to the faithful, who make the pious exercise of the Way of the Cross.

Those who are “impeded” can gain the same indugence, if they spend one half hour in pious reading and meditation on the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ."**

ENCHIRIDION INDULDGENTIARUM-No.63

My question is what does that mean to be "impeded" ?A

I thought maybe it was someone who is not in the state of grace with mortal sin on their soul, but then I am not sure. So hopefully someone on here may know what this means.

Thanks, Kerri
 
I have a basis for comparison, having my development as a (Roman) Catholic prior to Vatican II; I still miss the Latin Mass and everything else is just a shock to the system. Bongo’s during Mass? How about guitars and trumpets? How about shaking hands with total strangers around you (especially if some are homeless and obviously haven’t bathed since VII).

The tabernacle is off centre now for some strange reason, and you put the host in your own mouth (do you know how many kids in '61 in my Church are going straight to hec for doing that by accident?).

In Boston:
  1. Vatican II alienated a bunch of Catholics
  2. In 1974 Cardinal Meiderose supported forced busing and alienated a bunch more Catholics.
  3. In 2002 Cardinal Law was caught tolerating kid touching homosexual Priests and alienated still more Catholics.
  4. The Catholic Church is closing scores of Churches in Boston thanks to the homosexual Priest abuse scandal, alienating the rest of the Catholic population in Boston.
Yep, lots of changes going on in the Church.
 
You miss the Latin Mass, Mr.Walker?

Archdiocese of Boston

Holy Trinity Church map
140 Shawmut Ave.
Boston, MA 02118
Fr. Hugh O’Reagan
(617) 426-6142
Sun 12 noon, holy days 7 p.m.
 
The ‘public’ Stations of the Cross has changed. I remember the priest and all the bells and whistles but now all that is gone but the beauty of the Stations remains. While some don’t mind these changes and have a great need for community prayer and still attend this scheduled pray time, I prefer to quietly pray the stations at home either alone or with my family.

Try praying this beautiful prayer at church or home alone throughout Lent.
 
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katolik:
You miss the Latin Mass, Mr.Walker?

Archdiocese of Boston

Holy Trinity Church map
140 Shawmut Ave.
Boston, MA 02118
Fr. Hugh O’Reagan
(617) 426-6142
Sun 12 noon, holy days 7 p.m.
Click to expand...
Hi katolik,

Thanks for this post. I am very aware of the “German” Church in the South End. Trouble is, I rarely go to the South End of Boston. I wish every (Roman) Catholic Church had a Latin Mass, like they did when I was a kid, that way I could stick with a Church that has earned by admiration (like St. Anthony’s). But St. Anthony’s is a shrine and not a Church, and it doesn’t say the Mass in Latin, and I don’t like to have to schlep all the way over to the (yuk) South End.
 
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Binney:
The ‘public’ Stations of the Cross has changed. I remember the priest and all the bells and whistles but now all that is gone but the beauty of the Stations remains. While some don’t mind these changes and have a great need for community prayer and still attend this scheduled pray time, I prefer to quietly pray the stations at home either alone or with my family.

Try praying this beautiful prayer at church or home alone throughout Lent.
Click to expand...
The Franciscans do a wonderful Stations of the Cross, so it might behoove you to seek out a Franciscan Church.
 
What difference is there between South Boston and the South end of Boston?:confused:

I do to wish that every parish said the TLM. Is so sad is so sad. The people who work for what you want are called schismatics and idiots. Is sad! Every experiment is to be done except the “experiment” of Tradition.
Kevin Walker:
Hi katolik,

Thanks for this post. I am very aware of the “German” Church in the South End. Trouble is, I rarely go to the South End of Boston. I wish every (Roman) Catholic Church had a Latin Mass, like they did when I was a kid, that way I could stick with a Church that has earned by admiration (like St. Anthony’s). But St. Anthony’s is a shrine and not a Church, and it doesn’t say the Mass in Latin, and I don’t like to have to schlep all the way over to the (yuk) South End.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Fiz,

I returned just about a year ago. Like you, I experienced the heart pounding and knees shaking except mine was when I went to Confession for the first time in 25 years. Prior to this, I had gone to Mass a couple of places and like you, felt very uncomfortable in some Parishes. I am blessed however, because I have found a Parish that is wonderful. The Kyrie, Sactus and Agnus Dei are chanted in Latin although the Mass is in English and the bells are rung 3 times during the elevation of the Host and the Chalice. It’s so beautiful. (If you can’t tell, I’m old enough to remember Mass prior to Vatican II.) This parish also has Adoration routinely and I attended the Stations last Friday night after Adoration. They were wonderful…just as I remember. Father was in his cope, the altar boys with candles, etc. It brought me to tears.

On the same token, my son and daughter-in-law were looking for a parish on their side of town. They left 10 minutes into the Mass at the last one they visited. My son said there was no Crucifix, he couldn’t find the Tabernacle, and the Stations weren’t present. He said there were 2 large screens hanging down on either side of the altar, “like a concert, mom”. Worst of all he said, “I felt like I was sinning just by being there.” So, he took his wife and 2 year old daughter and hurried out. They now make the hour drive and belong to our parish.

I don’t believe that you’re nit-picking. I believe that you’re correct in your feelings and if it were me, I would go elsewhere.

No matter what you choose, please don’t be afraid to “go home”. Jesus is waiting for you.
 
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km112482:
My question is what does that mean to be "impeded" ?
Click to expand...
To make the Stations of the Cross means to go to a church or chapel where there are Stations set up and walk from one station to the next, meditating on the scenes from the Passion that they depict, and saying the prayers. It also means participating in the Stations as a group, with just the officiant and servers moving from station to station. To be impeded from doing this means that for some reason, such as illness or inability to get to the place where the Stations are, you cannot participate in the Stations in either of these ways. It has nothing to do with the state of your soul. However, in order to gain a plenary indulgence, one must go to Confession and Communion, pray for the intentions of the Pope, and be free of any attachment to sin. So the person in a state of mortal sin is, in a way, impeded from receiving the plenary indulgence. But that’s not what the Enchiridion refers to - only the physical inability to make the Stations.

Hope this helps.
Betsy
 
BETSY,
**Thanks so much. I had asked my mother in law what it meant after the way of the cross at church on Friday and she said she didnt know. **
Thanks again for your help I appreciate it.
Do you know if there is any source that you can go to find a list of things you can do to recieve plenary indulgences?
**Kerri **
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baltobetsy:
To make the Stations of the Cross means to go to a church or chapel where there are Stations set up and walk from one station to the next, meditating on the scenes from the Passion that they depict, and saying the prayers. It also means participating in the Stations as a group, with just the officiant and servers moving from station to station. To be impeded from doing this means that for some reason, such as illness or inability to get to the place where the Stations are, you cannot participate in the Stations in either of these ways. It has nothing to do with the state of your soul. However, in order to gain a plenary indulgence, one must go to Confession and Communion, pray for the intentions of the Pope, and be free of any attachment to sin. So the person in a state of mortal sin is, in a way, impeded from receiving the plenary indulgence. But that’s not what the Enchiridion refers to - only the physical inability to make the Stations.

Hope this helps.
Betsy
Click to expand...
 
If you are going to come back to the church-forget it as the church seems to change daily with more and more liberalization taking place-The Pope is not able to stop the onrush of changes that Vatican II has produced.

I am convinced the church no longer wants people like me, my wife and children as we dont tolerate these abuses and changes and want to revert back to when the church was respected and the Mass and sacraments and all that went with them were as they were for centuries-I am convinced that within the next 5-10 years we will be joining my Uncle, Aunts, and good friends that have made the leap to Indepenent and other Traditional Chapels that have no affiliation with Rome. When the church is all empty and they have no one sitting there anymore-they may finally get the point-but I doubt it
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Fizendell:
With heart-pounding and knees shaking, I managed to walk into the local church and attend Stations on Friday evening.

While I am pleased that the words haven’t changed, plenty of other things have.

I’m not too sure about “Church in the round” - I get that it provides everyone with a good view and it’s cozy… but not the long church with the altar at the front that I remember.

Altar girls? While it’s odd to see, I suppose I didn’t notice after the second station. When did people start following them around instead of staying in the pews? Different. Oh… and why was the man who was leading the stations wearing a suit? Was he the priest? No collar? No garments?

When did the giant, fountain-like pool replace the small holy water basins? Where did the candles go? No candles anywhere. No statues… and no stained-glass windows. Not even one. And… umm… what’s with the bongo drums?

Yes, I only attended Stations of the Cross… and while no one played the bongos, I could see that after only twenty years, plenty has changed. Last night, I finished a book called, “It’s Not the Same Without You” by Mitch Finley. If there’s anyone else in these forums who is thinking about returning to the Church, this was a great book.

I can understand that if someone left during the changes of V-II, today’s church would be a severe shock to the system, but for me… it’s only been since the 80’s. Was the Church I went to as a teenager really that conservative?

I am also beginning to accept that things change… people change, cities change, towns change… there’s no reason for the Catholic Church to stay the same. But bongos? Am I really that conservative? I don’t know.

I’m sure there’s someone out there who’s ready to tell me I’m nit-picking and looking for excuses. I know… I am. But more importantly, I am looking for a shred of something familiar so that ‘going home’ isn’t so scary.

My husband tells me I should just go to the Cathedral… he’s probably right. It’s only about twenty minutes into St. Paul… so twenty minutes for twenty years? Sounds about right! I’d hoped to feel at home with the church in our parish though.

So, if there’s anyone else out there who’s “returning” - did any of these things bother you… or am I just being petty?

=)
Fiz
Click to expand...
 
**AzGrams, **what city are you in? I am in Chandler and have been wanting to go to St Thomas The Apostle in Phoenix just to experience a TLM. Is that the only TLM?, or have you found something I am unaware of?Where is this Parish you speak of?
 
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km112482:
Do you know if there is any source that you can go to find a list of things you can do to recieve plenary indulgences?
**Kerri **
Click to expand...
I did a search on AOL for “plenary indulgence” and got a lot of matches, but because they were not from official Church sources, I wasn’t sure if they were current or correct, which is why I didn’t include a link here. That might be a good question in the Ask An Apologist forum - you’d be sure to get a reliable answer from there.

Betsy
 
catsrus said:
**AzGrams, **what city are you in? Where is this Parish you speak of?
Click to expand...

Hi Cats…

I’m in the west end of Phoenix and belong to St. Thomas Aquinas in Goodyear. It’s the 10:45 Mass that I spoke of.

As far as I know, St Thomas the Apostle is the only parish in Phoenix right now offering the TLM routinely and I too have wanted to go. There is a parish in El Mirage, over here on the west end named “Our Lady of the Sun” which is Traditional Catholic. I’m not certain of their Mass times however.

Please, come join us at St. Thomas Aquinas for a Mass anytime! 👋
 
I too have recently returned (am returning) to the Church after many years away. Being born in '64 I don’t remember mass pre Vatican II. I agreed with others that alot has changed since I last attended regularly in the early 80’s.

Regarding Stations, aren’t they supposed to be on Friday nights? My parish holds them on Thursdays so they can have a soup dinner afterwards. Being a bit of a wise *** i asked “Can’t you eat soup on Fridays?” seems they like to serve a nice beef vegatable soup. When I asked why they couldn’t have tomatoe soup and grilled cheese sandwiches, all I got was a blank look. Oh well. I would go on Thursday but I’m out of town on weekdays.

Here are a few other questions I’ve got:
  1. when did jeans, sneakers, and a t-shirt become acceptable?
  2. why aren’t people genuflecting?
  3. Since when does everybody go up for Communion? I’m the only one who stays in the pew. I haven’t made it to Penance yet so I don’t go. All I can say is the church must be jammed on Saturday afternoon with 4 masses worth of Parishioners all confessing in a half hour.
  4. why are people sitting down after Communion? aren’t we supposed to kneel until the tabernacle doors are closed and the Eucharist is no longer exposed?
  5. Doesn’t anybody recieve the Eucharist on their tongue anymore? I guess not because the alter boys don’t have the “host catcher thingy”. Sorry don’t know the real name for it. In fact the alter boys are not even near the priest.
  6. have they thrown out all the nice old hymms and replaced them with new songs? Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above was a favorite.
I could go on and on with what I’ve observed in the last few weeks but I’ll spare you.

I’m not trying to be funny. It’s just that I’m trying to return to the Church but it’s not really like ‘returning’ since so much has changed.

Please pray for me,
Mike
 
Mike, everything you’ve mentioned fall into the category of “pious practices” which have ALWAYS varied from parish to parish.

We’re the same age. In the parish where I grew up, we always sat after communion, after a short prayer. Only after leaving home did I find some parishes that worry about the closing of the tabernacle. So it’s not a universal practice.

Hand reception of communion has been around since the 70’s. If you want to receive the old way, you still may. But don’t fret over what anyone else is doing.

Clean clothing in good condition has always been acceptable. I’m sure you have noticed that dress standards in general society have become more informal.

The substance of the Mass - our reason for being there - has not changed, and never will. Don’t fall into the trap of so many people here, that obsess over things that really don’t matter.
 
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