Stations of the Cross

[patrick457]

What does him being 25 have to do with it?

You people need a serious reality check.

He’s 25 and he goes to Church. Just because the young are traditional doesn’t mean you get to lord over us.

You should pray for us because we are under 30 and in Church. Can’t say that for hardly any of my peers.

Hey, I’m 15 and am struggling in my final year of Middle School here in Japan. I’d also ask you all to pray for me (and for everyone else of course, particularly this present generation).

Now let me take a moment to say that I really like discussing/debating with all of you (whether I agree with you or not). You and your questions/statements usually lead to further and deeper research into 2000 years of the Church and its history; I’d really like to thank all of you for that.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Hey, I’m 15 and am struggling in my final year of Middle School here in Japan. I’d also ask you all to pray for me (and for everyone else of course, particularly this present generation).

Now let me take a moment to say that I really like discussing/debating with all of you (whether I agree with you or not). You and your questions/statements usually lead to further and deeper research into 2000 years of the Church and its history; I’d really like to thank all of you for that.

You argue pretty well for a 15 year old. Keep on thinking for yourself about these issues. Just don’t accept anyone’s opinion on the Tridentine Mass or the SSPX as fact. The official stance on both has changed several times in my own lifetime. I’m sure it will change again, with a more favorable outlook on both.

Of course I will pray for you. It wasn’t that long ago that I was in Middle School.

Middle school sucks.

 

[patrick457]

You argue pretty well for a 15 year old. Keep on thinking for yourself about these issues. Just don’t accept anyone’s opinion on the Tridentine Mass or the SSPX as fact. The official stance on both has changed several times in my own lifetime. I’m sure it will change again, with a more favorable outlook on both.

Of course I will pray for you. It wasn’t that long ago that I was in Middle School.

Middle school sucks.

Of course; during my time here one of the things I’ve learned (and is an unwritten rule of mine) is ‘to check the truth of a given statement; scour available sources of information for articles or documents if necessary; then compare and check their veracity’.

As for the two issues, they are quite tricky since in many cases (especially in these type of topics), what is true for one day may no longer be true for the next and thus I would not like to give much of an opinion about them (especially on the SSPX issue), just to be on the safe side.

The Japanese Middle School is hard (as part of the Baseball club, often I still go to school Saturday or Sunday); these forums is one of the few places where I can at least, get some rest (though my concept of ‘rest’ would not hold true for many of you here).

 

[PrayforMallory]

Of course; during my time here one of the things I’ve learned (and is an unwritten rule of mine) is ‘to check the truth of a given statement; scour available sources of information for articles or documents if necessary; then compare and check their veracity’.

As for the two issues, they are quite tricky since in many cases (especially in these type of topics), what is true for one day may no longer be true for the next and thus I would not like to give much of an opinion about them (especially on the SSPX issue), just to be on the safe side.

The Japanese Middle School is hard (as part of the Baseball club, often I still go to school Saturday or Sunday); these forums is one of the few places where I can at least, get some rest (though my concept of ‘rest’ would not hold true for many of you here).

I was too busy playing super nintendo when I was 15. It’s weird. I’m learning about Catholicism from someone who wasn’t alive in 1990! Actually makes me feel old!

I’ve heard about Japanese schools. One of my friends is considering teaching there for a year.

Sounds tough to be a student there.

 

[patrick457]

I was too busy playing super nintendo when I was 15. It’s weird. I’m learning about Catholicism from someone who wasn’t alive in 1990! Actually makes me feel old!

I’ve heard about Japanese schools. One of my friends is considering teaching there for a year.

Sounds tough to be a student there.

Ah, really tough.

Hard subjects, and on some schools, the usual bullying (it’s becoming quite a problem really, with some kids killing themselves; at least, no one’s bringing any guns to school ), which can be traced to the lack of disciplinary measures on part of the teachers (no things like detention here).

 

[rwoehmke]

What does him being 25 have to do with it? You people need a serious reality check.

He’s 25 and he goes to Church. Just because the young are traditional doesn’t mean you get to lord over us.

You should pray for us because we are under 30 and in Church. Can’t say that for hardly any of my peers.

Well let me put it this way. It seemed in my opinion that saint refael, while traditional and devout, had a rather narrow perspective on the history and scope of some of the practices in the Church down through the ages. It was that which caused me to check his “creds” so to speak. I am really not so much critical as I am curious as to the sources that have formed his particular viewpoint. I have nothing against under 30’s or even under 20’s. I interact and socialize with them every week of the year.

 

[saint_rafael]

Well let me put it this way. It seemed in my opinion that saint refael, while traditional and devout, had a rather narrow perspective on the history and scope of some of the practices in the Church down through the ages. It was that which caused me to check his “creds” so to speak. I am really not so much critical as I am curious as to the sources that have formed his particular viewpoint. I have nothing against under 30’s or even under 20’s. I interact and socialize with them every week of the year.

I know Church history. I have studied it on my own and endured the awful classes of Church history that are given at the University.

I know the Councils, I know the doctrines, and the devotions. However, I will not fall victim to the modernism and liberalism that has destroyed Christianity in which one ridiclues devotion, calls into question apparitions, miracles, piety, and every sort of traditional belief.

I am a huge believer in the supernatural and God’s intervention in human history. I have read the lives of saints and I believe in their stories and their miracles.

I believe in the story of St. Dominic and his reception of the Rosary.

I believe in St. Catherine Laboure getting the image of the Miraculous Medal directly from Mary.

I believe in the shroud of Turin. I don’t care what any person or scientist in the world says, I know that it is the face of Jesus because it is the most beautiful and perfect face in the history of the world.

I will always believe in the traditions and supernatural events of the Church even as the world has gone atheist and as more and more catholics continue to loose the faith.

 

[saint_rafael]

As to the original thread about the fourteen stations, here’s a great article:

traditioninaction.org/religious/m017rpWYDChange.html

from the article:

“Unfortunately, the message this changed Stations of the Cross sends is very important. What the updating of the centuries-old structure of the Via Crucis transmits to youth is that everything can change. In the spirit of Vatican II, everything evolves – liturgy, customs, prayers, long-established pious customs, and even dogma. Everything can and should be updated. That is, at least, the implication.”

“Why this new rendition of the Stations? Behold, we have the second message sent to Catholic youth: We don’t want to hurt or offend any of our non-Catholic “friends,” be they Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or pagan. This is the new evangelization that has been promoted at the World Youth Days - the way to evangelize is to not offend the enemies of the Church. Let’s dance and sing together; let’s meditate, hold hands and hug; let’s even pray together, giving everyone the space and liberty to address the god/gods he so desires. The only thing forbidden in the WYDs is teach the Catholic Faith without prevarication, without compromise. This kind of “evangelization” does not deserve that noble name.”

 

[rwoehmke]

I know Church history. I have studied it on my own and endured the awful classes of Church history that are given at the University.
/QUOTE]

If you have the cash, I would recommend a six volume History of Christianity written by Warren H. Carroll. They are available from Amazon.com and are very true to the Catholic Faith. I believe Carroll is a founder of Carroll College in the eastern United States. I only have read the first five volumes so far. Quite excellent and well footnoted as to sources.

 

[patrick457]

I know Church history. I have studied it on my own and endured the awful classes of Church history that are given at the University.

I know the Councils, I know the doctrines, and the devotions. However, I will not fall victim to the modernism and liberalism that has destroyed Christianity in which one ridiclues devotion, calls into question apparitions, miracles, piety, and every sort of traditional belief.

I am a huge believer in the supernatural and God’s intervention in human history. I have read the lives of saints and I believe in their stories and their miracles.

I believe in the story of St. Dominic and his reception of the Rosary.

I believe in St. Catherine Laboure getting the image of the Miraculous Medal directly from Mary.

I believe in the shroud of Turin. I don’t care what any person or scientist in the world says, I know that it is the face of Jesus because it is the most beautiful and perfect face in the history of the world.

I will always believe in the traditions and supernatural events of the Church even as the world has gone atheist and as more and more catholics continue to loose the faith.

Good for you.

As an aside, I’d recommend this thread on the Shroud of Turin (which had become quite comprehensive; it refutes many of the arguments put forth against the image’s authenticity).

 

[Balance]

As to the original thread about the fourteen stations, here’s a great article:

traditioninaction.org/religious/m017rpWYDChange.html

from the article:

“Unfortunately, the message this changed Stations of the Cross sends is very important. What the updating of the centuries-old structure of the Via Crucis transmits to youth is that everything can change. In the spirit of Vatican II, everything evolves – liturgy, customs, prayers, long-established pious customs, and even dogma. Everything can and should be updated. That is, at least, the implication.”

“Why this new rendition of the Stations? Behold, we have the second message sent to Catholic youth: We don’t want to hurt or offend any of our non-Catholic “friends,” be they Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or pagan. This is the new evangelization that has been promoted at the World Youth Days - the way to evangelize is to not offend the enemies of the Church. Let’s dance and sing together; let’s meditate, hold hands and hug; let’s even pray together, giving everyone the space and liberty to address the god/gods he so desires. The only thing forbidden in the WYDs is teach the Catholic Faith without prevarication, without compromise. This kind of “evangelization” does not deserve that noble name.”

So I guess I won’t see you in Sydney in July?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

It was only in the last couple of decades that the Church allowed the praying of one mystery to be considered sufficient for saying the Rosary.

Wrong. This practice of praying one mystery, i.e., 5 decades, has been in place much more than “a couple of decades”. I can remember in the 1940’s asking nuns who wore the long fifteen decade rosaries why theirs was so long. They gave the explanation that the 15 decades was the complete rosary (at that time - my footnote) and because of the demands on lay people with jobs, families, etc. that the Church long ago(not defined by them) said that laypeople could pray 5 decades as a rosary.

As a child, I remember neighborhood rosaries where we would gather in the front yards and families would all pray the rosary together. A different family would host the rosary each week.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I will not fall victim to the modernism and liberalism that has destroyed Christianity in which one ridiclues devotion, calls into question apparitions, miracles, piety, and every sort of traditional belief.

Christianity has been destroyed??? Thats news to me. When did this happen.? I have however said this before and will say it again, whoever holds himself/herself up at their own arbiter of what is truth (in matters of the Church) is flirting with protestant relativism.
We have the Magisterium, the official teaching authority of the Church as our guide. Anyone who holds that they know more than the Magisterium is flirting, (if not already there) with the sin of pride.

I am a huge believer in the supernatural and God’s intervention in human history. I believe in the story of St. Dominic and his reception of the Rosary. I believe in St. Catherine Laboure getting the image of the Miraculous Medal directly from Mary. I believe in the shroud of Turin. I don’t care what any person or scientist in the world says, I know that it is the face of Jesus because it is the most beautiful and perfect face in the history of the world. I will always believe in the traditions and supernatural events of the Church even as the world has gone atheist and as more and more catholics continue to loose the faith.

While I may disagree with small particulars on this, I cannot say you are wrong and in error, in the above, with the exception that you say that more and more Catholics are loosing their faith. I , where I am, see a tremendous growth in the Church and vocations to the priesthood. The only place I am in strong disagreement with you on on your attachment to SSPX. I will say that the Church is a living thriving, Church. It is not the same Church as it was 1800, 1600 etc. years ago. Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which is still with the Church. it has grown and thrives. There were problems with the Church throughout history, simply because it is made up of sinful humans. We have had good popes and bad popes, but the Holy Spirit has never left the Church. He is still with us, not with splinter groups. I strongly believe and thank God that the popes we have had throughout the 20th and present century have been strong shepherds of the flock. Especially those from Blessed John XXIII to the present. (And I do also believe that St Pius X was an excellent and strong and Spirit filled pope) For all these, we can thank God. To know the full truth, one must follow the Magisterium. With them you have the Holy Spirit’s guidance and promise to be free from error.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B