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Chuck1
Guest
Hi I was wondering why do most catholic churches have a statue of mary near the enterence ? And then a massive curfix by the alter ?
Thanks for your help
Thanks for your help
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Maybe because most churches are dedicated to the Virgin Mary?
Most churches I know have the statue of the patron saint by the entrance. And of course about half or more are dedicated to the Virgin Mary, like St. Maryâs, Our Lady of ____, etc.
Most churches I know have the statue of the patron saint by the entrance. And of course about half or more are dedicated to the Virgin Mary, like St. Maryâs, Our Lady of ____, etc.
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RyanK
Guest
Well, the whole idea of the Mass is that weâre witnessing what took place at our Lordâs Passion that explains the crucifix. Now the reason for the statue of Mary at the entrance is that 1.) She was present at our Lordâs Sorrowful Passion. 2.) She us the Mother of us all. 3.) Being the Mother of Jesus, she is the ultimate intercessor, thus we should do all things through and with her.Hi I was wondering why do most catholic churches have a statue of mary near the enterence ? And then a massive curfix by the alter ?
Thanks for your help
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Mike30
Guest
All Latin Rite Churches are required by the rubrics to have a crucifix in the Sanctuary area.
As to the Blessed Mother,we have extremely strong devotion to her. She occupies a
prominent place in the theology of the Church and is not just another person.Overall, there are significantly more titles, feasts and Marian veneration practices among Roman Catholics than in any other Christian tradition.
She is in a nutshell adored, venerated,respected and loved by hundreds of millions.
She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost and remained a virgin throughout her life. She is known as the Immaculate Conception. She was assumed bodily into Heaven and of all there except the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is our strongest protector and intercessor.
Besides all that and much more importantly she was chosen to be the Mother of our Lord Jesus
I think a statue is warranted
As to the Blessed Mother,we have extremely strong devotion to her. She occupies a
prominent place in the theology of the Church and is not just another person.Overall, there are significantly more titles, feasts and Marian veneration practices among Roman Catholics than in any other Christian tradition.
She is in a nutshell adored, venerated,respected and loved by hundreds of millions.
She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost and remained a virgin throughout her life. She is known as the Immaculate Conception. She was assumed bodily into Heaven and of all there except the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is our strongest protector and intercessor.
Besides all that and much more importantly she was chosen to be the Mother of our Lord Jesus
I think a statue is warranted
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Marian_Devotee
Guest
Just to clarify, we Catholics venerate and are very devoted to Our Blessed Mother, but she is NOT adored. Latria worship is given to God alone.
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dcana
Guest
Yes, but the Blessed Mother isnât adored. âAdorationâ can mean different things but it usually means âworshipâ and as such should not be used in reference to Mary.All Latin Rite Churches are required by the rubrics to have a crucifix in the Sanctuary area.
As to the Blessed Mother,we have extremely strong devotion to her. She occupies a
prominent place in the theology of the Church and is not just another person.Overall, there are significantly more titles, feasts and Marian veneration practices among Roman Catholics than in any other Christian tradition.
She is in a nutshell adored, venerated,respected and loved by hundreds of millions.
She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost and remained a virgin throughout her life. She is known as the Immaculate Conception. She was assumed bodily into Heaven and of all there except the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is our strongest protector and intercessor.
Besides all that and much more importantly she was chosen to be the Mother of our Lord Jesus
I think a statue is warranted
Why? Because theyâre beautiful and they remind us of the persons whose images we see. Why else?
The question that should be asked, especially in reference to the Crucifix, and Iâm not being flippant here, is âWhy are there no Crucifixes in Protestant churches?â When it comes down to it, about 500 years ago Jesus was removed from the Crucifix because it was too âCatholic.â Just as Mormons subsequently removed the Holy Cross from their places of worship because they are too âChristian.â Isnât the Cross itself a âgraven image?â Letâs see, itâs made out of wood, so it is âgraven,â and is a representation of something âin heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.â It is the representation of something âin the earth beneath,â namely, the two pieces of wood on which they nailed Jesus at the Crucifixion. According to Godâs Word, âYou shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, âŚâ
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dcana
Guest
Sorry, Marian, you posted while I was writing my post.
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dcana
Guest
If anyone can explain to me how the Cross is not a graven image that is a representation of something else, thereby rendering the making of one or the buying or displaying of one a violation of one the 10 Commandments (using the logic of some Christians, anyway) Iâll gladly retract my comment.
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cheese_puff
Guest
and to finish that last bit⌠âyou shall not bow down to them or serve themâ
Well, we (Catholics) ⌠donât, so the crucifix ISNâT a graven image
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TimothyH
Guest
Mary is the Mediatrix of all Grace.Hi I was wondering why do most catholic churches have a statue of mary near the enterence ? And then a massive curfix by the alter ?
Thanks for your help
All grace comes to us through Mary. Every conversion of every sinner and every salvation, won for us by Jesus on the cross, comes to us individually and personally, through the hands of Mary.
Why would we not put a statue up?
The statue of Mary in the Church I attend is on the left side of the sanctuary. The statue of her Son is on the right side of he sanctuary. We have a life size statue of St. Catherine of Siena by the entrance.
-Tim-
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paperwight66
Guest
Iâm sure you donât mean this the way it sounds, but in case there is anyone reading this and is confused, it must be clarified.
We do NOT believe that Mary was âmiraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghostâ.
Mary was conceived in the normal way by the normal process used by her parents.
She was preserved from sin by the action of the Holy Ghost - is that what you meant? But she was not miraculously conceived. She had a father and a mother.
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thistle
Guest
Is that correct?All Latin Rite Churches are required by the rubrics to have a crucifix in the Sanctuary area.
As to the Blessed Mother,we have extremely strong devotion to her. She occupies a
prominent place in the theology of the Church and is not just another person.Overall, there are significantly more titles, feasts and Marian veneration practices among Roman Catholics than in any other Christian tradition.
She is in a nutshell adored, venerated,respected and loved by hundreds of millions.
She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost and remained a virgin throughout her life. She is known as the Immaculate Conception. She was assumed bodily into Heaven and of all there except the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is our strongest protector and intercessor.
Besides all that and much more importantly she was chosen to be the Mother of our Lord Jesus
I think a statue is warranted
GIRM 308: "There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such across, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations."
Near the altar does not necessarily mean in the sanctuary area.
The Crucifix in our Church was suspended from the ceiling, not over the sanctuary area but pretty close.
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dcana
Guest
Of course we donât. Re-read my post. âGravenâ does not mean âevilâ it simply means âcarved.â Both a cross and a crucifix are âgravenâ images and Iâm pretty sure anybody who is concerned with this Commandment would not limit âgravenâ images just to those carved out of wood, but made out of any material, whether carved or formed in some other fashion. After the giving of the commandments, the Israelites made a golden calf and worshiped it. You donât carve gold, you melt it and pour it into a form. I donât see either how something painted, drawn, or printed would be any different than a statue. It is a representation of something âin heaven or on earth or in the seas.â What difference does it make if it is in two dimensions or makes use of all three dimensions? It could still be worshiped just the same. I honestly donât know the relative proportion of Protestants who believe that the making of images is in itself sinful versus those who read the verse in context and see that what is actually prohibited is the making of images with the purpose of worshiping them. I would think that the former group is much larger than the second. If the former are serious about the following of the Word of God as they understand it, then they should have a big problem with pretty much all art, except for modern, âamorphousâ art, especially sculpture, lladro figurines, dolls, model trucks, pictures of people, figurines of angels, artificial plants, etc. Obviously, I could go on all night with things we make that are representations of âthings on earth or in heaven or in the seas.â
But the saner ones realize that the prohibition is against worship of these things, which become, by definition, idols. It must be kept in mind what was going on 4,000 years ago. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob chose a people to whom He would reveal Himself in a world that was completely pagan and polytheistic, as it had been for thousands of years, was for thousands of years after that, and still is today among many peoples of the world. The revelation that there is One God was completely ârevolutionaryâ and unexpected. All the nations around them, the Egyptians, Babylonians, Amalekites, Greeks, Phoenicians, and so on, and the Israelites themselves, were polytheistic and worshiped idols. There was the ever-present danger that they would succumb to the temptation to begin to worship these false gods of the peoples in whose midst they were living, hence the need for a Commandment against making idols and worshiping them as if they were God, which the Israelites violated time and time and time again. The idea that there was only One God was just so âout there.â This is also why there were the strict laws against mixing with the Gentiles, given in order to make them a people âset apartâ - because of this very real danger.
What the pagans at that time were doing, and what the Israelites themselves did from time to time, was to make figures in the form of a bull, goat, or whatever, and actually think they were God (or gods), bowing down before them in adoration: âThese are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!â If you would ask an Ammonite, for example, what they were doing, they would tell you, âWe are worshiping the god Moloch.â And we would have no reason to doubt them. Most Protestants know that we believe (and consequently, they believe) in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the One True God, who dwells in Heaven. Yet when we say, âWe do not worship statues,â their response is âyes you are.â Some say that, anyway, the ones who this thread are referring to. In other words, they do not believe us. I donât understand how it is they could even imagine that we think that a figure made out of plaster could be God, as the pagans of 4,000 years ago did, but apparently, many do.
Statues are beautiful and they remind us of the persons represented. Just like the giant Abraham Lincoln in his memorial. Though Iâm not sure how âbeautifulâ it is - he wasnât a particularly handsome man. I canât think of a better way to ponder the love of the Sacred Heart of Jesus than to see a picture or statue of Him pointing lovingly at it. I personally have a great fascination and appreciation for icons and iconography. Iâd like to take a course on iconography someday. Itâs fascinating to study the meaning behind the various figures, colors, and symbols. I found out a while ago that the apostles are often pictured wearing blue garments with a red tunic on the outside, because the red represents the fact that they have been âclothedâ with the Divinity of Christ, as Paul talks about, which covers their humanity, symbolized by the color blue. Whereas Jesus is represented wearing red garments with a blue tunic, the red symbolizing His Divine nature which is hidden underneath, so to speak, our humanity which He took on at the Incarnation.
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cheese_puff
Guest
I understood your post.
The last bit I finished for you, about not worshiping or serving, that is the bit that is the point of Godâs commandment.
Otherwise, why would God himself have ordered man produce âgraven imagesâ? Iâm referring to the Arc of the Covenant, you know, the Cheribums. Last I checked they reside in Heaven.
The last bit I finished for you, about not worshiping or serving, that is the bit that is the point of Godâs commandment.
Otherwise, why would God himself have ordered man produce âgraven imagesâ? Iâm referring to the Arc of the Covenant, you know, the Cheribums. Last I checked they reside in Heaven.
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BernadetteM
Guest
If you take that commandment literly out of context, then we must also not have ceramic angels, fishes, dogs or figures of humans. I have seen these images in many protestant Christian homes.
There also can be no photographs of love ones. I do believe that many years ago some Orthodox Jews would not allow their pictures taken.
It is difficult to understand how some can say it is okay for one to have the above statues, images etc., but it is wrong to have statues in a church.
From all the posts on many websites it appears that many protestants take what they choose from the Bible out of context and ignore the true meaning of the words.
I wonder what they do at Christmas time when sending cards. I would assume they are blank, except for the message. What extreme lengths some go to, to prove the Catholic Church is wrong.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
There also can be no photographs of love ones. I do believe that many years ago some Orthodox Jews would not allow their pictures taken.
It is difficult to understand how some can say it is okay for one to have the above statues, images etc., but it is wrong to have statues in a church.
From all the posts on many websites it appears that many protestants take what they choose from the Bible out of context and ignore the true meaning of the words.
I wonder what they do at Christmas time when sending cards. I would assume they are blank, except for the message. What extreme lengths some go to, to prove the Catholic Church is wrong.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Correction, the crucifix is a graven image (graven meaning carved or sculpted by hand).
Our bow and worship is not directed to the crucifix however, but to Jesus Christ whom is represented.
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cheese_puff
Guest
Youâre right, I didânt articulate my point well. Thank you for the correction.
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Cat
Guest
As an ex-Protestant (evangelical), I agree with much of what has been written about the âgraven imagesâ issues. I also think, based on the writings of evangelical Protestants like Chuck Colson, that there is much more openness to the crucifix among evangelical Protestants then there used to be. Many of the âalternativeâ evangelical worship services and churches that offer this kind of worship make use of traditional (Catholic) practices, including use of a crucifix.
When my daughter was very young, she expressed displeasure in the the use of the plain cross in our church. She said that the cross is nothing more than an instrument of execution, and that only when we see Christ on the cross does it become a Christian symbol. She said that we may as well wear necklaces of tiny electric chairs or hangmanâs nooses. My husband and I thought that what she said made a lot of sense, even though she was pretty young.
However, I do wish to make sure that everyone knows that there ARE sects of Protestantism that are very strict about use of ANY images. Yes, most Protestants have creche scenes and pictures of loved ones and knickknacks of animals in their homes. But certain stricter sects allow NO images in their presence, and even cut up the newspaper before bringing it into their home. So yes, there are Protestants who recognize the hypocrisy of the graven image practices, and they have taken stespâharsh onesâto make sure that they adhere to the Bible as they understand it. Whether or not you agree with them, you have to respect their diligence in attempting to completely obey the Lord.
Also, there are sects of Protestantism that are not nearly as strict, but who do forbid images of God (Father, Son, and/or Holy Spirit). J.I. Packer is a highly-respected and beloved evangelical pastor, teacher, and author. Years ago, he wrote denouncements of the use of images of God, even to the extent that he doesnât believe that childrenâs Sunday school and VBS materials should contain pictures of Jesus in their workbooks.
IMO, this is a near-heresy, if not outright heresy, because it completely separates the physical and the spiritual, and makes Jesus merely a spirit, when He was and still is very much a human being like us. It also makes our Christianity strictly spiritual, and makes our bodies merely âcagesâ to hold our spirits.
I really have a problem with Packerâs teaching, and I had the same problem when I was Protestant. Other Christians have problems with Packer and his anti-God-image teaching, also, so he is kind of âfringe.â But at least he is not hypocriticalâhe tries to obey the Old Testament teaching as he understands it. Rather than condemning such people, I believe that Catholics need to pray for them and âlove them into the Church.â
When my daughter was very young, she expressed displeasure in the the use of the plain cross in our church. She said that the cross is nothing more than an instrument of execution, and that only when we see Christ on the cross does it become a Christian symbol. She said that we may as well wear necklaces of tiny electric chairs or hangmanâs nooses. My husband and I thought that what she said made a lot of sense, even though she was pretty young.
However, I do wish to make sure that everyone knows that there ARE sects of Protestantism that are very strict about use of ANY images. Yes, most Protestants have creche scenes and pictures of loved ones and knickknacks of animals in their homes. But certain stricter sects allow NO images in their presence, and even cut up the newspaper before bringing it into their home. So yes, there are Protestants who recognize the hypocrisy of the graven image practices, and they have taken stespâharsh onesâto make sure that they adhere to the Bible as they understand it. Whether or not you agree with them, you have to respect their diligence in attempting to completely obey the Lord.
Also, there are sects of Protestantism that are not nearly as strict, but who do forbid images of God (Father, Son, and/or Holy Spirit). J.I. Packer is a highly-respected and beloved evangelical pastor, teacher, and author. Years ago, he wrote denouncements of the use of images of God, even to the extent that he doesnât believe that childrenâs Sunday school and VBS materials should contain pictures of Jesus in their workbooks.
IMO, this is a near-heresy, if not outright heresy, because it completely separates the physical and the spiritual, and makes Jesus merely a spirit, when He was and still is very much a human being like us. It also makes our Christianity strictly spiritual, and makes our bodies merely âcagesâ to hold our spirits.
I really have a problem with Packerâs teaching, and I had the same problem when I was Protestant. Other Christians have problems with Packer and his anti-God-image teaching, also, so he is kind of âfringe.â But at least he is not hypocriticalâhe tries to obey the Old Testament teaching as he understands it. Rather than condemning such people, I believe that Catholics need to pray for them and âlove them into the Church.â
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Mike30
Guest
Yes I worded that badly.and I apologize for any misunderstanding for that badly worded sentence. What I meant to say was that she was conceived without sin and as such is called the Immaculate Conception. I would assume that the Holy Ghost had something to do with it however.
As to the person who said we do not adore Mary because we do not worship her I will say only that I adored my mother and did not worship her either.
As to the crucifix being near the altar I will say that the entire area immediately surrounding and near to the altar is properly called the Sanctuary and the crucifix is to be within that area. I think the problem is that with the altar rails having been removed or never installed, thus eliminating any separation between the Altar and the congregation many people have no idea what the Sanctuary is.
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dcana
Guest
Itâs difficult to understand, Bernadette, but I believe you have given the reasons.
The Commandment does not specify the locations where we can or can not have these images. They say you canât have them in a church because Catholics do, and the Catholic Church is wrong, and they say itâs ok to have things in the home because they do, and they donât want to change. So much for Sola Scriptura.
This is interesting. What âalternativeâ worship services are you referring to, Cat?
Iâm not surprised at this, though Iâve never met or heard of any myself. Amen to your last sentence.
I agree completely. The Incarnation changed everything. Where in the Bible does it say we can have images of things but not images of God? Iâm pretty sure the answer is ânowhere.â So much for Sola Scriptura again.
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