Statue you'd tear down

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RuthAnne said:
He started a war without the consent of Congress
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South Carolina started the war when they shelled Fort Sumter

Don’t have an argument against the rest, but South Carolina unequivocally started the civil war.
 
It’s worth noting Forrest attempted to disband the klan a year after it’s formation, ordering its members to destroy their costumes and cease activity after they started acting increasingly violent. He was ignored of course but his involvement with the klan ended soon after it began.
 
RuthAnne said:
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EmilyAlexandra:
The Lincoln Memorial, however, is hands down the finest monument in the country and a fitting tribute to the greatest hero of American history.
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Lincoln was the greatest enemy of the Constitution in our nation’s history. I would tear down all of his monuments if it were up to me.
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Lincoln had a war to deal with – and during wartime, some Constitutional rights or privileges have to be temporarily suspended in the effort to win the war and, in his case, save the union.

Had he not been assassinated, the post-war reconstruction might have gone more smoothly, and our country might have healed much faster.
 
When it comes to removing icons, I recall several years ago when the Jack-in-the-Box restaurant chain actually had a Jack-in-the-box clown on top of their roofs. Parents became upset because some children found the clown intimidating, so Jack-in-the-Box removed it and just kept the name.

Removing statues isn’t a new thing. It’s just that nearly everything that stands for anything is being targeted these days, reasonable or not.
 
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It appears that the clown iconoclasm was a marketing campaign to promote a menu of “better food” and that intimidating children may only have been incidental.
 
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EmilyAlexandra said:
I certainly do not mean to diminish the undoubtedly awful things that were done in Yugoslavia under Tito’s regime. However, one must acknowledge that the period of the Second World War and the following decades was a period in which many countries faced unprecedented and unsurpassed challenges. Many statesmen of this period of history have to be considered in more nuanced ways than we are used to. The Polish leader Wojciech Jaruzelski, for example, is a fine example. On the one hand, he was a communist dictator who imposed martial law on his own people. On the other hand, he was first and foremost a patriot who preserved his country from the incomparably worse fate of being invaded by the Soviet Union and its allies. Even leaders who are almost universally praised, such as Winston Churchill, are not entirely immune from criticism over their conduct of the war. In London recently a statue of Haile Selassie was destroyed by members of an ethnic group he had persecuted as emperor. Such things are rarely black and white.
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With full respect, but these are arguments that I hear almost every day from local anti-fascists, liberals who are actually neo-communists.
I guess you have never been in area of the former Yugoslavia and you don’t know what the real situation is here. What you are quoting is a “second history” that has nothing to do with the real truth. I agree that nothing is black and white but you can’t imagine this if you haven’t been through it and /or you live in this area.

What I am saying here isn’t just some criticism, this is just a pinch of truth.
EmilyAlexandra said:
would add that one certainly cannot compare Tito to Hitler. Hitler did not fight against the enemies of the Germans. Hitler waged a war of aggression against most of Europe and committed the worst atrocities in the whole of human history, attempting the systematic extermination of entire peoples.
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Jews obviously were enemies of German nation.

Tito is responsible for death of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people. He hated Church. Church was persecuted for decades… And not just Church, many, many people have died and been persecuted - children, women, men, priests, nuns, and not just Catholics. There were concentration camps just for children, camps for women, camps for everyone who were enemies of system. This isn’t even a shadow of what happened.

Can you write sources for informations you are providing?
 
I think what he’s getting at is that it was pretty popular belief that Jews were enemies of the Germans, in order for so many people being willing to go along with their abuse and systematic murder. The German public knew what was going on and didn’t care for the most part.
 
RhodesianSon said:
I think what he’s getting at is that it was pretty popular belief that Jews were enemies of the Germans, in order for so many people being willing to go along with their abuse and systematic murder. The German public knew what was going on and didn’t care for the most part.
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I mean, sure. There was a perception that German Jews were the enemy. I’m just hoping he’s not saying that they were in fact the enemy and Hitler was right.
 
I didn’t get that impression but I’ve been wrong before once or twice.
 
Of course that I don’t think that, I am saying what Jews were to Hitler. Just as comparison what Tito’s “enemies” were in past. What Jews were to Hitler that was Catholic Church to Tito.

Sorry, I should elaborate better.
 
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😔 I am not always the best with my writing.

Yeah I’ve seen that too.
 
JanR said:
Lincoln had a war to deal with
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Yes, a war that he declared, which is unconstitutional. Only congress can declare war.
JanR said:
some Constitutional rights or privileges have to be temporarily suspended
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Like habeas corpus? The president can’t suspend it. Only congress can. But the dictator Lincoln did, anyway. He should have been impeached.
 
Out of curiosity, do you think the NDH under Ante Pavelić and the Ustaše regime was better than the Yugoslav Partisans?
 
I won’t post a photo here (it makes me sick and I refuse to spread the image anywhere; you can look it up yourself) but the statue that makes me ill to even see a photo of is the Baphomet statue in Detroit (made by the satanic temple), which is satan, backed by an inverted pentagram and has 2 little children lovingly gazing up at satan (complete with horns, hooves, wings and a beard).
 
It was not. As it wasn’t any other ideology.
Every ideology is evil and I don’t support one as winner over another.
Both, Pavelić and Tito were responsible for murders, persecution, crimes against humanity. List is endless.
So, how is that helping you in this theme?

My post about this thread is that I would tear dictator’s statue. I don’t know what are you trying to prove. I am not gonna change my attitude since I know what happened under both regimes (mine family and many other) and if one dictator replaced another that is not something that I should be very happy about.

Can you post your sources?
 
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