Statues in Catholic Churches

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Little_One0307 said:
Hi,

How in the world is “praying to statues” technically correct if I may be so bold as to question this? Nowhere in Church teaching, the CCC, Church Tradition, nor the Magesterium of the Catholic Church says that praying to statues is correct. Where did you get this?

Thanks.

Little One0307
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I meant “pray to the saint”, instead of “pray to statues”.😊 Major league feaux pas!!!
 
timorg said:
I don’t really mind the statues. I wonder, though, where prayer to saints come to mind? This has been a question resounding in my mind since I have learned that Catholics pray to Saints.
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Prayer to the saints and aksing them to intercede on our behalf - AKA The “Communion of Saints” - is a custom and belief which flows from belief in the Body of Christ.

No one would argue that individual members of the Body fo Christ can pray only for themsleves or or that members of the Body of Christ cannot ask others to pray for them. As individual members of Christ’s body, intercessory prayer on behalf of the needs of others is normal, expected and even considered virtuous. And nowhere in Scripture or Christian Tradition is it stated that the relationship between members of the Body of Christ ends when one dies. Some bring up divination as a prohibited practice but that applies only to communicating with the dead in an effort to fortell the future. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that the spirits of dead people who make it to heaven are unable to pray for us or that they are somehow prevented from praying for us. In fact, the Bible is rife with examples of spirits praying for us and bringing our peteitions before God.

*I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and I did the same thing when you used to bury the dead. … … I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord." (Tobit 12:12,15)

See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father. (Matthew 8:10)

When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones. (Revelation 5:8)

Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel. (Revelation 8:3-4)*

Spirits in Heaven are keenly aware of what goes on down here on earth. Paul wrote of the prophets who were killed (sawed in two, etc) and called them a “Great cloud of witnesses” in Hebrews 12:1.

In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents." (Luke 15:10)

What happens? Do the angels in heaven start rejoicing and the saints look at each other wondering what’s going on? Do the saints say, “There go those crazy angels again, rejoicing over repentant sinners. What a bunch of knuckleads. Now where did I leave my harp?”

And we see a clear example of our prayers for the dead bring not only permitted, but effective and righteous.

But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain. They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. (2 Maccabees 12:40-46)

We are one community, dead or alive. We are one body of Christ, not two bodies of Christ - one body of Christ who are alive and pray for each other and one body of Christ who are dead and are oblivious to what goes on in the created world. The only people for whom there is no hope and for whome our prayers and theirs are innefective are those in Hell. Since the souls and spirits of the dead are in perfect union with God, they are in a perfect postion to bring our prayers into the presence of the Almighty.

The intercessory prayer of the saints is a powerful weapon, one which some Catholics don’t take advantage of and which our non-Catholic brothers and sisters don’t even realize they are missing.

Mary, pray for us!
St. Jude, pray for us!
St. Augustine, my patron, pray for us!
St. Josamaria, pray for us!

-Tim-
 
To answer this quite simply, have you at one time or another asked someone to pray for you or someone close to you? Praying to a saint is like asking your best friend to pray for you. We are asking or their intercession between us and Jesus. Unfortuantely, people who are not Catholic think we are putting a saint on the same level as God and Jesus and that is not the case at all. Hope this helps clear it up somewhat for you. Thanks for the question.

Leslie
 
timorg said:
I don’t really mind the statues. I wonder, though, where prayer to saints come to mind? This has been a question resounding in my mind since I have learned that Catholics pray to Saints.
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Praying to Saints and the Communion of Saints Proved from Scripture

1. Every Christian is a member of the Body of Christ

“Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.” (Romans 12:4-5)

“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” (1 Corinthians 12:12-13)
And we are joined with Christ through baptism

“having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12)

“We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” (Romans 6:4)

“for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” (Galatians 3:27)
2. All Christians are connected through the Body of Christ

“If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.”(1 Corinthians 12:26)

“If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you” (2 Corinthians 2:5)
3. Physical death does not separate us from the Body of Christ

“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39)
4. There is only one Body of Christ in Heaven and on Earth

“by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.” (Ephesians 2:15-16)

“There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” (Ephesians 4:4-5)
5. The Church is the Body of Christ

“And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” (Ephesians 1:22-23)

“And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy” (Colossians 1:18)
6. Just as we can pray for one another, we can suffer for one another because we are all connected in Christ

“Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Colossians 1:24)
7. If you can ask a member of the Body of Christ on earth to pray for you, then you can also ask someone who is a member of that same Body of Christ in heaven to do the same for they are not “dead” at all.
“He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." (Luke 20:38)
 
This article from This Rock last year gives a very good perspective on art in Churches in general, and gives a history of how the Church has regarded the entire topic of “graven images”, and why, through the ages.
catholic.com/thisrock/2010/1007fea1.asp
in fact most of this issue is devoted to the concept of Christian Art
it may help answer many of OP’s questions
 
Hello everyone,
I’d just like to say that it upset me when I read this morning the few posts (name removed by moderator) had written to me as they were meanspirited, I could not believe they could come from a person of faith. I was not going to respond but started thinking that maybe someone else like me might come on this forum and want information and then get an uncharitable response and be completely put off Catholicism.

There were more than a few people who gave me very informative answers that I read with interest- many thanks for that and thank you so much to Fidelis and DJK100, who were very kind and not judgemental at all.

My question was polite and I asked because I want to understand why there are statues in Catholic churches. I’m not against them, in fact I actually like them. I would like to become a Catholic as I love God and I love to worship in that way and to pray the rosary. There are lots of reasons why but the main reason is in my heart and you can’t explain that. But sometimes people get more in their heads than their hearts and could easily discourage someone like me so I ask, be careful with your words please. I think people who were not so kind are weary as one person said of the question. I can imagine it must be annoying but aren’t we all trying to live a Godly life and how is making fun of people doing that?

I’m not put off becoming a Catholic but please consider what you write, as you could put someone else off and that would be a terrible thing.
 
That’s alright and it wasn’t just you.

However, I still feel that even if someone is deliberately saying something silly/trying to get a reaction, you should ignore it or inform them of the truth (but not by being ‘uncharitable’). I’m sorry if you disagree with me on that but I really feel making negative comments are a bad example and not good for us and this way of life anyway.
I don’t say that to have a go at you, I just really believe it.
 
I am guilty as charged also. When I read the rules of posting threads, it suggested that you do a search for previous threads that may answer your question. I made a rash judgement which is never a good thing. I also apologize and am glad that you received such kind responses. Forgive me!:imsorry:
 
Thank you all for your posts. You’ve cleared this matter up. I now know that it is more of a petition to the Saints and not a request in the form of worship or that they could answer our prayers directly. The only exposure to Catholicism I have gotten is from another protestant claiming they know about it or from some warped movie on TV. Neither were very good sources on this matter. The average Catholic may be slightly misled about this as well. The word ‘pray’ does have a broad meaning, so I guess I took it wrong as well.

Blessings,
 
=Louise71;7871829]Please could someone tell me why there are statues in Catholic churches when the Bible says not to make graven images? Many thanks, Louise
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WELCOME TO THE FORUM! 🙂

This is a frequent question based on MISINFORMATION .

Let me prove this to you and then add a few comments.

[Yahweh commanding Moses]** "Exod.25:1-8 **The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the people of Israel, that they take for me an offering; from every man whose heart makes him willing you shall receive the offering for me. And this is the offering which you shall receive from them: gold, silver, and bronze, blue and purple and scarlet stuff and fine twined linen, goats’ hair, tanned rams’ skins, goatskins, acacia wood, oil for the lamps, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense, onyx stones, and stones for setting, for the ephod and for the breastpiece. And let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst… ** 17-20 ** "Then you shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two cubits and a half shall be its length, and a cubit and a half its breadth. ***And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be. ***

**Cheribum are ANGELS /statues **

Here again Is Yahweh God COMMANDING MOSES:

Num.21: 8-9 And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live"

Another “Graven Image” ordered by God Himself.

WHY?

Because what God ACTUALLY prohibits is GRAVEN IMAGES OF FALSE GOD’S

Do you have a pictures of your loved ones? WHY? To remind you of them right? RIGHT!

That is the same purpose of statues, sacramental, photos, Art Ect. Thet REMIND us that SAINTHOOD is a Possibility; and to the degree that we are able to emulate their lifes; the more holy and pious we become.

The ignorance in which we Catholics are charged with WORSHIP of anyone EXCEPT GOD is completely False. Do we respect; honor, praise; Mary and the Saints; YEP! All of that in order to grow closer to God. BUT WE ONLY WORSHIP GOD!

IT IS FAR MORE ACCURATE AND EXPLAINATORY TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE PRAY THROUGH Mary and saints then it is to say we “pray to them.” Both are true but THROUGH explains what we are doing.

Intercessory prayer is a GREAT GOOD it that we are asking Saints and Mary [ALL IN THE ACTUAL PRESENCE OF GOD] to ADD THIER OWN prayers and petitions to our own. Thus doubling the effectivness of our prayers.

Next to the Lords pray; the “HAIL MARY” is the most frequent prayer said. Here are the Words: …

Hail Mary full of Grace Luke 1;26] The Lord is WITH THEE [Luke 1;27] Blessed are you among women [Luke 1:42] and Blessed is the FRUIT of your womb Jesus [Luke 1:35, and 41] Holy Mary Mother of God [Luke 1:35] *** PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH…AMEN!***

As you can see it is a prayer THROUGH MARY to her Son Jesus; and it’s biblically founded.

ALL of our catholic beliefs and practices are explainable when we get past the speculation of competing faiths.

God Bless,
Pat
 
Louise71 said:
Please could someone tell me why there are statues in Catholic churches when the Bible says not to make graven images? Many thanks, Louise
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God instructed the Israelites to make statues for use in the Temple. Your error lies in trying to take a verse without taking the rest of Holy Scripture into consideration.
 
Louise71 said:
Please could someone tell me why there are statues in Catholic churches when the Bible says not to make graven images? Many thanks, Louise
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As others have mentioned; ‘raven images’ usually falls under idols. Before we also could not sculpt or create any thing that would represent God, because we had no ability to do so. References were still made however (i.e. Star of David).

What should be pointed out, however, is the time that the Christian religion and ultimately culture grew in. during such times, the Roman Empire was ruling a huge part of the world and in consideration to art…sculpting was the norm where as painting was not really done because lack in knowledge in painting materials and the over all cost of what materials existed at that time. stone, however, was relatively cheap.

the statues are means to remembering a person, as it was during the time of the Roman Empire. the faces may not be exactly same to actual faces - as it is hard to keep everyone on the same page for over thousands years.
 
Louise71 said:
Please could someone tell me why there are statues in Catholic churches when the Bible says not to make graven images? Many thanks, Louise
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Actually that is a poor interpretation of Scripture. Even my NKJV Study Bible states God was not against religious art or images,but the WORSHIP of them. Did not God instruct the creation of the Ark with two Cherubim angels? Is God contradicting Himself?
 
LOCO said:
Hello Louise and welcome,

I see some of my fellow Catholics are weary of answering this question.

Deuteronomy 5:8 “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.”

Firstly, in order for ‘idolatry’ to exist you would have to think of the statue, tree or thing itself as a God with divine powers. The CC does not teach this and I don’t know anyone who thinks this.

Secondly, lets look at the Commandment and apply it.

Would you say a photo of your parents/children or friends is an ‘idol’?
It is the ‘form/image of something on earth’.

What about a photo or a movie of fish/dolphin swimming?
It is also a ‘form/image of something in the waters below’.

What about the statues of war heroes or Abraham Lincoln?

The answer would be a resounding No.

The photo/movie/statue serves a purpose. It reminds us of our loved ones, precious memories of times spent together, our trip to the Maritime Museum, it reminds us that some things are worth dying for or that this person was the father of the nation.

The only way it would be ‘idolatry’ is if you believed in your heart that that person, statue, animal or plant possesses ‘divine powers’.

**Thirdly, ** At the time of early Christians, paper and ink was very expensive. This is before the printing press was invented. The Bible as we know it did not exist for hundreds of years after Jesus ressurrection. The Apostles had Sacred Tradition (passed to them from Jesus) e.g. bread and wine, they had their own eyewitness accounts and the OT Scriptures to teach from.

As they spread to other parts of the globe, they encountered illiterate masses. Statues became a popular way of assisting in making the Bible stories come alive. Just as photos/home movies etc. bring memories alive.

God did not mind statues as long as they serve the purpose of worshipping the Living God not an inanimate object.
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ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT POST!!! I never knew how to answer this question but wow that’s great and will be using this with my in-laws who are baptist

Likewise, what many forget is that art,stained glass windows, statues,etc were also used to depcit Biblical stories since most people could not read and write. Look at a child’s Bible book and compare it to an adult Bible? Which one has more pictures? Geee…I wonder why?
 
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