Statues?

[FranciscoIsrael]

You know, I just started reading the Bible.
Then, one fine day, I saw somewhere in Exodus;

And God spoke all these words:
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

"You shall have no other gods before me.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:1-6

If we Catholic’s believe that Jesus is in Heaven with His Father right now, does this mean that this verse imply’s to the making of statues? I’m very confused, I’ve even read that Statues and Cruxifixes arent Idols!!! They should be honoured and be regarded as Holy!!! Isnt it a sin to buy Holy thingss?(Simony)

Someone please Help me!

Francisco.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Do we worship the statues? Then, yes, that is idolatry.

Statues are no different than the photograph of your parents, or great-grandparents, that you look to when you think of them, and want to be reminded of them.

Now, if you’re worshipping stuff, that’s a problem. If they are a physical reminder of someone gone/not with you at the moment, no problem.

 

[Wolseley]

You know, I just started reading the Bible.
Then, one fine day, I saw somewhere in Exodus;


If we Catholic’s believe that Jesus is in Heaven with His Father right now, does this mean that this verse imply’s to the making of statues?

No. The statues we use in the Catholic Church are not idols. An idol is a statue that you literally bow down and worship. We don’t worship the statues; they’re just statues.

I’m very confused, I’ve even read that Statues and Cruxifixes arent Idols!!!

That is correct. They are not idols. If they were idols, you wouldn’t be able to worship unless ypu had the statue in front of you, because it would literally be your god. However, we worship God, not the statue, and we can worship God whether we have the statue or not.

They should be honoured and be regarded as Holy!!!

Yes, but no more so than any other sacramental, such as rosaries, holy water, scapulars, etc.

Isnt it a sin to buy Holy thingss?(Simony)

Not quite. Simony is the buying or selling of clerical offices, or of blessings and the like; objects fall into a somewhat different category, especially since if an object such as a statue is sold, it automatically loses whatever blessings have been placed on it.

Someone please Help me!

Francisco.

Hope this helps.

 

[FranciscoIsrael]

What is the definition of the word Worship?
Check it in your dictionary, what does say?
To worship is to pray and to show respect to God or to gods, worship can also mean an ernomous love to someone, such as
She loves her husband so much she worshipped him.

Do we pray to God? Do we Worship him? Do show respect to Him? Do we show ernormous love to Him?

Yet some people still believe that Statues have been doing miracles? I dare rebuke that in the Name of the King of Nations, Jesus. Why?
Can a statue talk?
can a statue move?
can a statue breathe?
can a statue hear?

To quote from the actual word of God, Jeremiah 10: 5 will do…
“Like a scarecrow in a melon patch,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”

Only God can do good!

 

[epostle]

It is the worship of things that is forbidden, both in Exodus and in Catholic teaching.

God actually commands the use of things for religious purposes in Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31, Num. 21:8-9. But these things were not worshipped.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon’s temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship, and they were not worshipped themselves.

Prayer never stops at a piece of wood or plaster, and it is Hollywood, hate cults, or very stupid Catholics that say otherwise.

As I understand it, buying and selling of religious objects after they have been blessed is a violation of canon law. For the most part, people who sell religious objects, and many books, do so to raise money for missions.

 

[MarkA16]

Hey, you’re 15, the same age I started thinking about my faith. I wish I saw this forum when I was 15, you’re lucky to have it now because it’s a good place to learn. Try not to jump to conclusions and keep your heart open.

Anyways, worship can mean honor. The Buddhist worship the Buddha, but Buddha is not god, since they don’t believe in god. They honor him. And they don’t worship the statue of Buddha either, but as a reminder.

 

[FCEGM]

You know, I just started reading the Bible.
Then, one fine day, I saw somewhere in Exodus;

And God spoke all these words:
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

"You shall have no other gods before me.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:1-6

If we Catholic’s believe that Jesus is in Heaven with His Father right now, does this mean that this verse imply’s to the making of statues? I’m very confused, I’ve even read that Statues and Cruxifixes arent Idols!!! They should be honoured and be regarded as Holy!!! Isnt it a sin to buy Holy thingss?(Simony)

Someone please Help me!

Francisco.

Francisco, this was discussed in another thread that is now closed, but I think these posts from the thread might be helpful to you:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3115284#post3115284

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3115429&postcount=7

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3115432&postcount=8

 

[Margarite]

I hate going into churches where there are no statues! It is like going into a house that no one ever lives in.

Anyways. Statues are just like pictures of people and they simply help us to learn about these great people, remember them, and honor them.
Secondly, you can sell “holy” things as long as they have not been blessed. If they have been blessed then you can only give them away. That is why statues of old churches should either be destroyed or given to new churches.

Our church finally got three whole statues. It is finally starting to look Catholic.

 

[Todd_Easton]

The story of the bronze serpent in Numbers 21:4-9 and 2 Kings 18:4 should provide some insight to the proper understanding of the commandment.

When the patience of the Israelites had worn thin in the desert and they began to complain against God and Moses, God sent saraph serpents to punish the people so that many of them died. When the people repented, God told Moses to make a graven image of a serpent and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who was bitten looked upon that image, he would recover. God worked miraculous healings through that holy image.

Many years later, the Israelites began to treat the image of the serpent that Moses had made, not as an inanimate instrument through which God miraculous healed the strickened, but as a god itself, burning incense to it. They had turned the holy image of the serpent into an idol and this greatly displeased God.

 

[FranciscoIsrael]

Shalom!

Ok, Now Understand why our church has statues and why we sell statues, Thank you all so much for replying!
I still have one more problem.
So we worship statues?
Are we making statues idols?
http://www.sspxasia.com/Countries/East_Timor/images/Fatima-procession.jpg
Jeremiah 10:5
Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."
http://www.excerptsofinri.com/images/procession.jpg

Dont you think we’re taking it too far?
We’re kisingm, crying, kneeling, bowing before these statues as a sign of respect and honor. But I think we’re taking it too far because the Bible clearly says;`

Revelation 5:13
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "**To Him **who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Why should we honor something else or someone else instead of Jesus?
I know, I know, honor your father and your mother, at least they are living things that can speak, hear and help us when we ask them for help! But we have a perfect Father who knows all our needs~! What can a statue of St. Anthony do? Give you bread? Help You? It cant even talk and you want it to help you!` To me its just foolisheness!!! Its the same as taking a piece of wood or a rock and putting it in your house and saying it saved me. Even Pope John Paul II when to that extend:
http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta...urces/documents/catholic/johnpaulii/cross.jpg

bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/resources/documents/catholic/johnpaulii/day_of_pardon_mass.htm (Go Here and you’ll find out more)

Does He not have read that the blood of Jesus Purifies all sins?
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
And all is just not the past, the verse did not mention just the past but ALL, past, present and future!!! So why should we Honor statues?

Even as one of the replies I had from this thread said that God commanded Moses to make a bronze snake that those who saw it may live after being bitten by the venomous snakes Numbers 21:8-9) But it was destroyed because they were incensing it
(2 Kings 18:4). So did God ask Moses to build two cherubs on the ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:17-21). This was not destroyed because the people did not worship it.The two winged creatures are ONE with the Covering!

What else was destroyed beacause of sin? The Golden Calf made by Aaron. Why? Because they we were worshipping it. Aaron said “Tommorrow will be a festival to the LORD”
(Exodus 32:5)
It was a festival to the LORD, the same LORD that Brought tha people of Israel out of the land of Egypt! But,
Why did The LORD say;

"Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’ (Exodus 32:7-8)

It was not an order of the LORD to build the Gold Calf! Thats why it was destroyed! Clearly The LORD said to Moses "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me.You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:2-6). And the people of Israel still were stubborn they cast an Idol and worshipped it!

Sometimes I just sit back and think, I myself am an altar server and I will have to give the incense to the priest, why has that not been seen by God? Does God want this to happen?`

It is beacause of God’s ernomous grace, His only beggoten Son’s blood has already purified all sins, we are sinless in the eyes of God, we were once wicked but now we are good, were are righteous, we are blessed, we have salvation, we are His Children, no more His people, Our Cup is overflowing in His abundant blessings just because He became humble and came down to earth all out for us, His Grace is sufficient for us! Why?!

Amazing Love! How can it be?
That You my king would die for me?
Amazing Love!
I know its true!
and its my joy to honor You!
in all I do I honor You!

 

[Leopard]

Shalom!

Ok, Now Understand why our church has statues and why we sell statues,…

Apparently not quite, yet.

…Thank you all so much for replying!
I still have one more problem.
So we worship statues?..

No.

…Are we making statues idols?..

No.

…Dont you think we’re taking it too far?
We’re kisingm, crying, kneeling, bowing before these statues as a sign of respect and honor…

Sometimes, because sacred artwork can be used by us as a tool to help us show our respect and honor to Jesus and His friends.

…Why should we honor something else or someone else instead of Jesus?
I know, I know, honor your father and your mother…

You’ve just answered your own question.

…at least they are living things that can speak, hear and help us when we ask them for help!..

So are God and His saints.

…What can a statue of St. Anthony do? Give you bread? Help You? It cant even talk and you want it to help you!..

Of course not. We don’t expect it to. But St. Anthony himself can and often does help us.

…Its the same as taking a piece of wood or a rock and putting it in your house and saying it saved me…

No, it is not.

Even Pope John Paul II when to that extend:

bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/resources/documents/catholic/johnpaulii/day_of_pardon_mass.htm (Go Here and you’ll find out more)…

I’m not going to do your work for you. Post your own comments if you want responses.

…one of the replies I had from this thread said that God commanded Moses to make a bronze snake that those who saw it may live after being bitten by the venomous snakes Numbers 21:8-9) But it was destroyed because they were incensing it…

Because they were worshiping them as gods, correct.

…So did God ask Moses to build two cherubs on the ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:17-21). This was not destroyed because the people did not worship it…

Correct.

…What else was destroyed beacause of sin? The Golden Calf made by Aaron. Why? Because they we were worshipping it…

Correct.

…Sometimes I just sit back and think, I myself am an altar server and I will have to give the incense to the priest, why has that not been seen by God? Does God want this to happen?`

It has. He does. The Liturgy is worship directed to God.

 

[LilyM]

You know, I just started reading the Bible.
Then, one fine day, I saw somewhere in Exodus;

And God spoke all these words:
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

"You shall have no other gods before me.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:1-6

If we Catholic’s believe that Jesus is in Heaven with His Father right now, does this mean that this verse imply’s to the making of statues? I’m very confused, I’ve even read that Statues and Cruxifixes arent Idols!!! They should be honoured and be regarded as Holy!!! Isnt it a sin to buy Holy thingss?(Simony)

Someone please Help me!

Francisco.

Just carefully read the very next book, Deuteronomy, for starters - chapters 21-30 or thereabouts. God had an awful lot to say about how the Meeting Tent was to be decorated and worshipped in - including lots of images of animals and plants for starters. Not to mention frequent use of incense by the priests. And yes, there were huge statues of winged cherubs (angels) in the sanctuary itself -as well as the two angels placed on top of the Ark of God’s Covenant itself.

I would make a sizeable bet that no-one went into the sanctuary without bowing, kneeling and praying, especially in front of the Ark and the Cherubs. Were they worshipping the gold box? Or the statues? Absolutely not.

Do you think they just might’ve touched, as a sign of respect, these representations of the holy angels who see God face-to-face and take our prayers to Him? Absolutely.

Were they committing idolatry? No. They were neither confusing almighty God with His creatures, the angels, nor were they confusing representations of said angels with the reality!

 

[Joysong]

Good post, LilyM, but somehow I have the feeling our young student is not hearing the answers, but prefers to admonish behind the guise of questions. [Especially since he has double-posted in two forums, and bypassed the one with a teaching from a Doctor of the Church. ]

Anyway, the scriptures are not Deuteronomy, but Exodus, beginning with Chapter 25.

"They shall make a sanctuary for me, that I may dwell in their midst.

This Dwelling and all its furnishings you shall make exactly according to the pattern that I will now show you.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Dont you think we’re taking it too far?
We’re kisingm, crying, kneeling, bowing before these statues as a sign of respect and honor. But I think we’re taking it too far …

Kissing, crying, kneeling, bowing are not reserved to divine worship only. Moses bowed before his father-in-law Jethro and kissed him (Exodus 18:7), the prophet Nathan bowed before King David (1 Kings 1:23), and King Solomon bowed before his mother Bathsheba (1 Kings 2:19). Since these actions are not reserved to divine worship only, they may licitly be directed toward creatures and created things, such as religious statuary, if done without the intention of offering divine worship.

It is the interior intention of the person involved and not the outward display (kissing, crying, kneeling, bowing) that differentiates legitimate respect from idolatry. If the person involved thinks that the creature or created thing is divine, then he is guilty of the sin of idolatry. Otherwise, he does nothing wrong.

Since we cannot know the interior intention of another person unless he tells us. Christian charity demands that we give the person involved in such actions the benefit of the doubt and not ascribe to him the sin of idolatry unless he tells us otherwise.

When Catholics use incense, it is offered to God, even when it is burned near people or objects. When a person or object is incensed in this way, we ask God to bless that person or object, as when at Moses’ request Aaron burned incense to God among the people to stop the scourge falling upon them in Numbers 16:47 RSV (17:11 NAB). Aaron’s burning of incense among the people was effective in obtaining God’s blessing on the people and similar approved uses in the Catholic Church are equally licit. You should have no qualms as an altar server giving incense to a Catholic priest.

By the way, I don’t think someone with such reservations about approved Catholic practices as you seem to have should be an altar server at this time. If a person freely does something that he is convinced is wrong, he sins. (See James 4:17)

 

[Lev23]

How does the Catholic Church address things like crowning statues, dressing them, or adorning them with any type of jewelary, like necklaces, etc.

Thanks is advance for your reply.

 

[juliamajor]

What is the definition of the word Worship?
Check it in your dictionary, what does say?
To worship is to pray and to show respect to God or to gods, worship can also mean an ernomous love to someone, such as
She loves her husband so much she worshipped him.

Do we pray to God? Do we Worship him? Do show respect to Him? Do we show ernormous love to Him?

Yet some people still believe that Statues have been doing miracles? I dare rebuke that in the Name of the King of Nations, Jesus. Why?
Can a statue talk?
can a statue move?
can a statue breathe?
can a statue hear?

To quote from the actual word of God, Jeremiah 10: 5 will do…
“Like a scarecrow in a melon patch,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”

Only God can do good!/Q I believe you are a new incarnation of another agent provocateur-same drivel, same old song- same stale rhetoric- please come up with something NEW and ORIGINAL.-Please!!

 

[juliamajor]

You know, I just started reading the Bible.
Then, one fine day, I saw somewhere in Exodus;

And God spoke all these words:
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

"You shall have no other gods before me.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:1-6

If we Catholic’s believe that Jesus is in Heaven with His Father right now, does this mean that this verse imply’s to the making of statues? I’m very confused, I’ve even read that Statues and Cruxifixes arent Idols!!! They should be honoured and be regarded as Holy!!! Isnt it a sin to buy Holy thingss?(Simony)

Someone please Help me!

Francisco.

This guy ,I believe , is an avatar of another agent provocateur- he uses same drivel, same old song and dance- even a similar profile.Please give me something of depth, something different- something original! Please!!

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Francisco, all idols are not statues, nor are all statues idols.

God instructed the jewish people to put statues in the Holy of Holies — specifically angels.

Basically, an idol is anything you put in place of God.

If a statue is not standing in God’s place in your mind then it is not an idol. Its that simple.

 

[Margarite]

The May crowning is a major tradition in the Catholic church during which a statue of Mary is crowned with a crown of flowers. We are not honoring the statue, but rather Mary the Mother of God.
As was said before we do not worship these saints, we only ask and petition their intercession with God. Mary is called the mediatrix of all graces: through her all graces are gained for us.
You ask other people to pray for you it is the same idea. We ask the saints (who are much holier than your friends) to pray for us.
We use the statues as we use pictures of our dead relatives. We use them to remind us of others who have made it to heaven despite their hard lives. They remind us of God’s mercy. They remind us of the trials and tribulations of the Catholics in the past and we can take comfort that they had it harder than we do and yet they are in heaven. The statues remind us to pray and to pray for others.
There are certain saints who seem partial to certain kinds of petitions. St. Anthony helps us to find what is lost. St. Jude helps us when we are close to despair. St. Joseph helps those close to death and also fathers.
This is mere tradition, but if we are looking for something that we have lost instead of cussing or say “Oh shoot!” we can be praying. Think of that if that is the only good that comes out of statues then it is a very important good. Instead of despair we turn to St. Jude. Instead of despair before death we pray to St. Joseph. Instead of giving up on non-Catholic or abusive spouses we pray to St. Monica.
The statues are often similar no matter where you are. St. Jude always is dressed in green and is holding a large gold medal and has a tongue of fire above his head… This way we can see the statue, know the saint, remember their story, and then take heart for we can get to heaven too.
We pray and ask the saint’s intercession because we want and need help and statues just help us to focus and ask and remember.

 

[FranciscoIsrael]

I thank you all for reply to this post and warning others about me saying that I have guises in diffrent threads.

In other words calling me a hypocrite. Anyway I would like to sincerely offer my heartfelt apology to all those who have been offended by this thread, the questions that I imposed and the feedback that was given to those who posted on this thread.

I just want all of you to understand that as a Catholic, I am not against the making and usage of statues. Its just that I was so confused of the Idea of kissing, kneeling and bowing before a statue. I’m againts the act of this and I do not practice it anymore because I think its wrong and sinful.

I hope all of you will accept my apology.

Your’s sincerely,
Francisco