Status of the RCC

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Just wondering, how is the RCC doing these years? Is it growing, remaining stable or decling? Any exact numbers or figures? The way I see it, athiests are growing in number. Technology seems to have an affect in religion in general. I hope that’s not the case. Also, is Islam the fastest growing religion?
 
Just wondering, how is the RCC doing these years? Is it growing, remaining stable or decling? Any exact numbers or figures? The way I see it, athiests are growing in number. Technology seems to have an affect in religion in general. I hope that’s not the case. Also, is Islam the fastest growing religion?
Hi,

Found some interesting numbers and things.

pewforum.org/Religion-News/RNS-Report-US-churches-continue-growth-decline-trends.aspx

arkansasonline.com/news/2011/feb/19/roman-catholic-membership-rises-20110219/

Not really finding any world stats, but I am sure that the Church is growing in the world as well. It will be interesting if others can post the world stats.

Little One0307
 
For world-wide religion statistics, here is a link…go to the bottom of the page for the chart:
wholesomewords.org/missions/greatc.html

The Catholic Church evidently grew by 19 million last year, according to this report:
blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/10/21/catholic-church-statistics-2010-increase-19-million-catholics-year/

Please be careful with these figures, though. The Catholic figures probably counts folks registered in parishes, whether they go to church or not; the world stats are notoriously fickle.
 
Please be careful with these figures, though. The Catholic figures probably counts folks registered in parishes, whether they go to church or not; the world stats are notoriously fickle.
Actually, If that’s how they are coming up with the number they might be actually under-counting. I don’t know how it is everywhere else but in South Florida about 80% of the people who attend Mass are unregistered. Based on what I have been told, Church registration is mainly an American custom…it actually looks like some we got from Protestant Churches. South Florida has so many immigrants and they often don’t see the need to register.
 
The figures which claim Islam to be the fastest growing religion are pretty dodgy. What the Muslim authorities which collect and publish these figures either ignore or don’t seem to want to know about the thousands of Muslims who convert to Christianity or become atheists (the number of Saudi nationals claiming asylum in the West for fear of being killed for being atheists or Christians has actually grown, from near none some 10 years ago to hundreds now).

Also, these type of figures from Muslim sources assume that anyone of a Muslim family is also Muslim, and practicing. It’s similar to the polls for Christianity in the UK: 72% of resident people in this country claim to be a Christian, whilst only 1% actually attend church.

Also take into account falling Western birthrates against the high birthrates of Muslim families/countries. In the average Islamic country, 5 children can be normal, whilst in the West 2 children is often the maximum. THis is also seen in immigrant populations of Western countries.

In short: the figures for Islam are dodgy.
 
Hi,

Found some interesting numbers and things.

pewforum.org/Religion-News/RNS-Report-US-churches-continue-growth-decline-trends.aspx

arkansasonline.com/news/2011/feb/19/roman-catholic-membership-rises-20110219/

Not really finding any world stats, but I am sure that the Church is growing in the world as well. It will be interesting if others can post the world stats.

Little One0307
Extract from the first artie above

“…The Roman Catholic Church (No. 1) and the Southern Baptist Convention (No. 2) are still significantly larger than all other North American denominations, but Catholics posted minimal growth of less than 1 percent, and Southern Baptist membership fell for a third straight year, according to the 2011 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches…”…
"…The 10 largest Christian bodies reported in the 2011 yearbook are:
  1. The Catholic Church: 68.5 million, up 0.57 percent.
  2. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.1 million, down .42 percent…"
0.57%'of 68.5 million is 390,400 people
Not bad
 
Extract from the first artie above

“…The Roman Catholic Church (No. 1) and the Southern Baptist Convention (No. 2) are still significantly larger than all other North American denominations, but Catholics posted minimal growth of less than 1 percent, and Southern Baptist membership fell for a third straight year, according to the 2011 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches…”…
"…The 10 largest Christian bodies reported in the 2011 yearbook are:
  1. The Catholic Church: 68.5 million, up 0.57 percent.
  2. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.1 million, down .42 percent…"
0.57%'of 68.5 million is 390,400 people
Not bad
WOOT Go Catholic Church. Three cheers for the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church! 👍
 
Just wondering, how is the RCC doing these years? Is it growing, remaining stable or decling? Any exact numbers or figures? The way I see it, athiests are growing in number. Technology seems to have an affect in religion in general. I hope that’s not the case. Also, is Islam the fastest growing religion?
None of the things you mention here helps anyone get closer to following the evidence to truth.
 
For world-wide religion statistics, here is a link…go to the bottom of the page for the chart:
wholesomewords.org/missions/greatc.html

The Catholic Church evidently grew by 19 million last year, according to this report:
blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/10/21/catholic-church-statistics-2010-increase-19-million-catholics-year/

Please be careful with these figures, though. The Catholic figures probably counts folks registered in parishes, whether they go to church or not; the world stats are notoriously fickle.
Wow I didn’t know that there are so many more Roman Catholics in the World than all Protestants counted together! Over a billion Catholics! :eek:
 
Just wondering, how is the RCC doing these years? Is it growing, remaining stable or decling? Any exact numbers or figures?
Catholicism is growing worldwide, but the yearly % increase isn’t as high as the overall global population growth and it’s not as high as the % increase of Christianity, either. Thus, the percentage of Christians in the world is dropping and the percentage of Catholics that are Christians is dropping as well.

The fastest growing group among Christians is the Charismatic movement, but that’s strictly based on its % increase. The overall numbers aren’t that impressive yet. Evangelical Christianity isn’t increasing at quite that pace, but it is growing faster than the world’s population and it presents the most viable long-term threat to Catholicism’s market share of Christianity.

Just over 50% of Christians in the world are Catholic. This figure includes non-practicing Catholics, those who were baptized Catholic but currently self-identify as something else, and anyone else who could possibly be called Catholic, however tenuous such an attribution may be. This percentage is dropping each year, and even though the Catholic Church continues to have a positive growth rate (around 1% each year), the growth rate of Christianity is higher (around 1.8%) and the world’s population growth is even higher (2.3%, if memory serves).

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and it outpaces that global growth rate by plenty. Looking to the future, Islam will probably overtake Christianity in raw numbers, but Catholicism will represent less than half of Christianity well before that happens. So you never know; maybe Christianity will grow faster when there’s a smaller percentage of Catholics. And since most of Islam’s growth is due to high birth rates rather than conversion, maybe growth at that rate will prove to be unsustainable in certain parts of the world.
The way I see it, athiests are growing in number. Technology seems to have an affect in religion in general.
Atheism is growing in Europe and America, along with a broader “no-religion” trend. Generally speaking, though, a population that’s 20 or 25% non-religious will only yield a 4 or 5%-sized segment that is relatively certain that there is no God, at least to the extent that they’d assent to the label of “atheist” and choose it from a list of options. Atheism generally isn’t counted all on its own- you’re usually going to be looking at a figure that represents a conglomeration of freethinkers, atheists, agnostics, non-religious humanists, and so forth. Less than a quarter of that group will actually self-identify as “atheists” who are relatively sure that there is no god, but it is rather commonplace for the group as a whole to be called the “atheist” group. As such…

Worldwide, atheism is growing in number, kind of like how Catholicism is technically “growing in number.” Thing is though, nearly every group of any kind is growing in number. The world’s population went up by, like, 2 billion in about 150 years. Groups of people that are actually shrinking in raw numbers are few and far between. As far as the percentage of atheists in the world, that is not growing worldwide. There’s certain parts of the world where the percentage has been slowly growing for quite some time and it will probably continue to grow in those places at about the same rate (America a little, western Europe more esp. in England, eastern Europe the most…have you seen Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania lately? Sweden, perhaps, or the Czech Republic?..), but overall, worldwide, the atheist percentage is shrinking very slightly or at best holding its own. There was significant growth during and after the World Wars, but it’s plateaued since then.
I hope that’s not the case. Also, is Islam the fastest growing religion?
Yes, without a doubt, Islam is the fastest growing religion. They aren’t very good at converting people, but they are pretty good at making sure people don’t convert away from it- especially if a country’s official state religion is Islam. This normally isn’t a great recipe for long-term success, but they’re also very good at making babies. So that’s where the growth is coming from.

I don’t know how long that growth can continue, though. Most of the countries that have Islam as the state religion also need to slow down population growth- it’s a pretty high priority for them. Look at Saudi Arabia, for example. For all the problems that people have to choose from, finding solutions to population growth is always at the top of the list of greatest concerns- and by a wide margin, too. And for some countries (clearly not Saudi, but some others), they appear to be on the verge of separating church and state just a bit, open up to the rest of the world, and make life a bit more free. It’ll be interesting to see how well the pace keeps up once that really starts happening.

Thing is, Muslim countries where Islam is the state religion are no different from Catholic countries where everyone is Catholic by virtue of being baptized that way. People there don’t necessarily practice either Islam or Catholicism (respectively), and it just varies from country to country. It’s hard to say how many of them would stick with their country’s religion (or how many of their kids would do so) if there were some meaningful choices. Perhaps Catholicism in Europe will give us a preview of what it’ll be like for its Islamic counterparts once they start going through a similar process. Matter of fact, keep an eye on Islam in Europe as well- Turkey especially, and perhaps Bulgaria to some extent. See how that continues to play out, and maybe we’ll all have something to learn from where North African and Persian and Arabian countries are concerned.
 
cooterhein,

Do you mind providing me with source documents as to where you are getting your figures? Those sound to be the most accurate of them so far. Thanks.

Little One0307
 
Wow I didn’t know that there are so many more Roman Catholics in the World than all Protestants counted together! Over a billion Catholics! :eek:
Then I guess if this is true, Catholics can stop pretending that they are being attacked by the majority of Christians when they are the majority. No way to win here, and sounds much like the Muslim argument of numbers = truth.
 
Actually, If that’s how they are coming up with the number they might be actually under-counting. I don’t know how it is everywhere else but in South Florida about 80% of the people who attend Mass are unregistered. Based on what I have been told, Church registration is mainly an American custom…it actually looks like some we got from Protestant Churches. South Florida has so many immigrants and they often don’t see the need to register.
You are absolutely correct! In our area of western Georgia and eastern Alabama, we have a registration figure for Hispanics that is somewhat less than 10% of those who attend Mass. But it is difficult to keep up with the Mass-goers; sometimes they come, sometimes not, sometimes they come to a “special” Spanish-language Mass at another Parish.
 
Catholicism is growing worldwide, but the yearly % increase isn’t as high as the overall global population growth and it’s not as high as the % increase of Christianity, either. Thus, the percentage of Christians in the world is dropping and the percentage of Catholics that are Christians is dropping as well.
(snipped)
Please do give us the source of your statistics.

Mine show that world population increased by 1.2% last year. However the Catholic Church statistics (which may be under-reported, as noted) show a 1.6% increase. Generally, I believe "Christian’ churches are on a downward slope. Your source would be helpful to figure this out.

Thanks.
 
Then I guess if this is true, Catholics can stop pretending that they are being attacked by the majority of Christians when they are the majority. No way to win here, and sounds much like the Muslim argument of numbers = truth.
Please clarify your comment about the Catholic Church “being attacked” by a majority of Christians. I don’t think there has been a time, since Luther, when the Catholic Church has reached out to so many brothers and sisters in separated churches, and generally has a good relationship with most.

On the other hand, especially based on current (hardly “evening news” type) events in India, Iraq and Egypt, the Church is under severe attack from Hindus and Muslims.
 
Please clarify your comment about the Catholic Church “being attacked” by a majority of Christians. I don’t think there has been a time, since Luther, when the Catholic Church has reached out to so many brothers and sisters in separated churches, and generally has a good relationship with most.

On the other hand, especially based on current (hardly “evening news” type) events in India, Iraq and Egypt, the Church is under severe attack from Hindus and Muslims.
Jamesthe Older,

I am wondering about the constant claims of the Catholic Church being under attack today here and now at Caf. If one would believe the asserstions made here, Most if not all non catholics consider Catholics to be non Christians.
I saw this first at a forum called Carm.
 
Jamesthe Older,

I am wondering about the constant claims of the Catholic Church being under attack today here and now at Caf. If one would believe the asserstions made here, Most if not all non catholics consider Catholics to be non Christians.
I saw this first at a forum called Carm.
I am well aware that some unknowing “Christians” do not study Church history, and so, are uninformed. Some are even virulently anti-Catholic and publish anti-Catholic tracts. But these seem to be mis-guided individuals, who are not aligned with a specific church…they simply have access to a printing press or blog.

On the other hand, the Catholic Church maintains an on-going relationship and discussion with many “Christian” churches, all the way from Southern Baptists to Anglicans.

To my knowledge, in recent years, outside of one incident in Birmingham, AL, no Catholic in the US has been murdered by a “Christian” seeking to “eliminate” the Catholic Church.

To my knowledge, it is much more difficult to live in a country where Hindu’s (India) or Muslims (Pakistan, Egypt, Iraq) see the Church as a threat to their “national religion”. There have been murders there, and even genocides in Rwanda…all in an effort to kill the Catholic Church.

Please tell me if this is not sufficient as an explanation.
 
cooterhein,

Do you mind providing me with source documents as to where you are getting your figures? Those sound to be the most accurate of them so far. Thanks.

Little One0307
Most of what I was looking at ultimately comes from religioustolerance.org (religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm) and that pulls from a variety of sources- Adherents, Encyclopedia Brittanica, BBC, International Bulletin of Missionary Research. I threw out some estimates without all the specific numbers in front of me, and even then, there’s some discrepancy between various sources that are equally reputable. I think the general direction of things is about the same regardless of the margin of error, though- Christianity has lost percentage points over the course of the last 100 years and may be on pace to lose another one or two over the course of the next 100, although there may have been modest gains over a shorter span of time in more recent history. If some numbers look a bit different from each other, that story might look a little different one way or the other- either way though, Christianity is treading water. It’s just a matter of whether we’re slightly above or below the waterline as of right now or in the near future. And either way, Islam is currently closing fast and Catholicism is losing market share to the rest of Christianity.

This is one more source, for which George Weigel is responsible. (You might have read his book Cube and the Cathedral…I actually read that for a class at an Evangelical liberal arts college). This is the source he’s responsible for. catholicity.com/commentary/weigel/08777.html

The preceding source from Religoustolerance might be a bit more dated, but Weigel’s seems to be a bit more up-to-date. He includes some number-crunching for daily averages in the middle of 2011, and while his purpose is primarily one of comparing Christianity to atheism and Islam, his numbers state that in the middle of this year, there will be 80,000 new Christians per day (although it’s unclear where that comes from or what all it includes) of which 31,000 will be Catholic. Setting aside questions of whether this includes adulthood conversions or not, 31k out of 80k is not the kind of proportion you need in order to stay ahead of that 50% figure relative to the market share of Christianity.

Again, I’m not sure exactly where he pulls those numbers from or the degree to which they’re very precise, but the purpose of giving these kinds of “daily figures” is to give you an idea of what kind of direction Christianity’s growth is taking on a day-to-day basis. So even if it’s not precisely 80,000 new Christians per day and even if new Catholics make up a total that’s slightly north of 40% rather than south of it, I think the general direction of things is still pretty accurate and it seems to be in general agreement with the other source as well. And let’s be honest, what we really care about is the direction we’re all headed and the estimated numbers in the next few years or in 2020 or in 2050. You can’t be precise with those kinds of things; they’re estimates and all kinds of factors are subject to change over time. The best you can do is provide different valences and show that different groups are headed in certain directions, and even if some of them won’t continue on that exact course, certain things probably won’t change direction entirely.

One last note- there does seem to be some debate and disagreement on the rate of change among Muslims as compared to Christians. A pretty good variety of opinions are expressed in the first source, and Weigel seems to have come up with numbers where Christians are being added at a rate slightly higher than that of Islam. I would have to look into that a bit more, but my impression of the last 100 years has been such that Christianity has stayed in the 33-34% range while Islam has climbed from less than 20% to quite a bit more than 20%. I do expect some of the dramatic populations explosions in Muslim countries to slow down, but I didn’t know that this had happened already. Afghanistan, for example, still has one of the fastest-growing populations in the world. It’s obviously unsustainable- there will be over a billion Afghans by around 2070 if it doesn’t slow down, and estimates do show that the rate of growth will drop from something like 6% to something more manageable like 2 or 3 in the next 10-15 years. Last I checked, though, this kind of dramatic slow-down wasn’t really happening yet. I was under the impression that the Islamic population was set to continue growing pretty quickly for the next 10 years or so. There’s clearly different sources that say different things, though, so I may be somewhat mistaken on that. Guess it gives me one more reason to keep digging around. 🙂
 
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