Status on Unification

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I agree with the Orthodox posters who said that our two Churches will never be united as far as I can see. Unless there are substantial changes in Rome (which would most likely create schisms within the Roman Catholic Church itself), I cannot see the Catholic Church ever coming into communion with the Orthodox Church.

The same is true, I think, for Lutherans. All the mainstream denominations are losing ground, at least in the US, and may very well die out at this rate. Nondenominationalism is on the rise, which leads me to think that the battle for converts will be taking place on an individual/personal basis in the future instead of a denomination-wide one.

Heck, even if the Lutherans wanted an ordinariate, do they have the ecclesiastical structure to facilitate it? Don’t they all have different liturgies / rites depending on the denomination, and different beliefs? I’m asking this as someone who has not studied Lutheranism in depth and would genuinely appreciate a Lutheran answer
 
ConstantineTG said:
Don’t hold your breath. We’re further apart that we would like to admit (Catholics and Orthodox).
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That couldn’t be more true. I think it’s more a problem within Catholicism though, many Orthodox I’ve met are very quick to point out drastic differences.
 
JonNC said:
Agreed. However, what’s curious is that, within Lutheranism, it is the liberals who have at the forefront of dialogue with Rome - The JDDJ, etc. (even though I’m a conservative who approves of it).
My point is the “sell” to conservatives has a higher bar since we tend to be more strident about the confessions. I think it makes Lutherans a bit different than Anglicans.

Jon
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Good point. But hasn’t a realization set in similar to the Anglicans that the Liberals have gone too far off the deep end and that you’d rather be with those who are likeminded like the Catholic Church?
Taurks said:
I agree with the Orthodox posters who said that our two Churches will never be united as far as I can see. Unless there are substantial changes in Rome (which would most likely create schisms within the Roman Catholic Church itself), I cannot see the Catholic Church ever coming into communion with the Orthodox Church.
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Well, the Catholics are willing to bend over for unity, but only as much. There are essential dogmas that the Catholic Church will never go back from, such as Pastor Aeternus. Those who said that Pastor Aeternus can be redefined to suit the Orthodox are delusional. There is no way the Orthodox Church will accept Pastor Aeternus no matter how you interpret it.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Good point. But hasn’t a realization set in similar to the Anglicans that the Liberals have gone too far off the deep end and that you’d rather be with those who are likeminded like the Catholic Church?
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Agreed. I would. But then, some of my confessional Lutheran brethren would consider me rather “Romanized”. 😃

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Agreed. I would. But then, some of my confessional Lutheran brethren would consider me rather “Romanized”. 😃

Jon
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It’s awkward to be seen as rigidly conservative by the liberals, and then some conservative Lutheran peers pin the “Romanizing” Lutheran label on you. Fortunately I manage to offend in other ways so my own “Romanized” nature is rarely noticed. I suspect many of the Lutherans here on CAFare of the same persuasion.👍
 
Stilldreamn said:
I suspect many of the Lutherans here on CAFare of the same persuasion.👍
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I sometimes wonder if it would be instead be possible to have a understanding between the various Nicene Creed churches that would allow us to recognise each other as brothers in Christ, but still maintain our own aspects of Christ’s church.

But then I realise we’re a valid continuation of the Western church (according to ourselves) so I shouldn’t worry about it.

I think we’ll have to wait unity in God’s time, but I do pray that he hurries a bit 🙂
 
Unification will be a slow process that will take decades to centuries. Complete and total unification will probably never happen, as there always has been outliers (such as the Gnostics). Jesus warned about false teachers and false prophets that would be with us. As for even incomplete unification, I’m doubtful it would happen in my lifetime, but who knows, things happen fast.

Any sudden attempt at unification by a mainstream denomination leader would cause that denomination to lose many of its members, likely producing even more offshoot denominations. Then we have non-denominational groups that actively reject main authority, and believe all you need is Jesus. I doubt they will ever try to unify with the Catholic Church. The heretical branches, like Mormonism and Jehoah’s Witnesses, have beliefs that directly contradict the Church, so I doubt they’ll ever be asking the Pope for unification either. Orthodoxy is complicated, since while so many of their teachings coincide with the Catholic Church, it’s going to take A LOT for them to concede and give their authority up to the Pope.
 
benjohnson said:
I sometimes wonder if it would be instead be possible to have a understanding between the various Nicene Creed churches that would allow us to recognise each other as brothers in Christ, but still maintain our own aspects of Christ’s church.
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I believe the Catholic Church already recognizes you(s) as a Brother(s) in Christ.
 
Choliks, I hope you realize that by allowing intercommunion between one part of the Catholic Church and the Nestorians, this does much more to hurt relations between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox than it could ever do to help it. In fact, one of our priests here has said that we have more or less given up any hope of real progress in talks with the Catholic Church as a result of their conciliatory stance towards the Nestorians (St. Cyril, one of the pillars of our faith, was the foremost critic of Nestorianism and we are most definitely the inheritors of that line of thinking).
 
dzheremi said:
Choliks, I hope you realize that by allowing intercommunion between one part of the Catholic Church and the Nestorians, this does much more to hurt relations between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox than it could ever do to help it. In fact, one of our priests here has said that we have more or less given up any hope of real progress in talks with the Catholic Church as a result of their conciliatory stance towards the Nestorians (St. Cyril, one of the pillars of our faith, was the foremost critic of Nestorianism and we are most definitely the inheritors of that line of thinking).
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I thought that elements of Nestorian doctrine in the Assyrian Church of the East was rejected by its Patriarch Mar Dinkha IV in 1976.
 
choliks said:
We’re taking baby steps… one baby step at a time…

It’s not a full, visible, communion, but it’s still a start.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20011025_chiesa-caldea-assira_en.html
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I am in favor of unification but first we must be honest in our differences, a good starting point would be the Augsburg Confession and the Apology of the Augsburg Confession. I just can’t see any unification just for the sake of unity.
 
hn160 said:
I am in favor of unification but first we must be honest in our differences, a good starting point would be the Augsburg Confession and the Apology of the Augsburg Confession. I just can’t see any unification just for the sake of unity.
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Agreed. That’s just another way of being relativistic.
 
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