Stay Catholic or change religions?

[laneo]

Your statement make me see clearly what you thoughts are. You want to convince yourself of the possibility of oversimplifying the issue, when I think you realize it is not so simple. I have a notion, by you statements, that you are young, possibly under 30 years of age. If that is the case, then the gift of time will be of a great blessing to you if you use it wisely. Your right about the Blood of Christ part, no one would argue that, and that is correct. But you are differentiating between Catholic and Christian, which are the same things. This confusing labeling has always been a problem for obtaining some understanding between CHRISTIANS as a whole. The important point that should be considered is that the Church offers proper guidance to live a holy life.

Did you not understand what I wrote in my last post?

Although it is a very attractively packaged item today, the philosophy of an easy path to Christ is dangerous, and many have been side-tracked by such a practice. How is it that you claim to be Catholic, yet are basically saying the opposite? Your statements are self assuring, when in fact they are also somewhat searching. You want immediate answers but that is impossible. I urge you to do more study of the Church and Her teachings, pray for guidance and accept the charity others offer. Everyone needs prayer.

I hear ya, it’s not that I feel like Catholics are not Christians, but to me, there are Catholic-Christians, Lutheran-Christians, etc. Yes, I am 22 years old. I am not trying to take an “easy” path to salvation. I just think people get hung up on the wrong ideals. I am Catholic, and have been since the day I was born. Just cause I don’t agree with all of the Canon Law, does that make me a bad person? . I accept prayer from others, and I guess I am just a bit irritated. Sometimes it just sounds like people are trying to be demeaning.

 

[Tartini]

I hear ya, it’s not that I feel like Catholics are not Christians, but to me, there are Catholic-Christians, Lutheran-Christians, etc. Yes, I am 22 years old. I am not trying to take an “easy” path to salvation. I just think people get hung up on the wrong ideals. I am Catholic, and have been since the day I was born. Just cause I don’t agree with all of the Canon Law, does that make me a bad person? . I accept prayer from others, and I guess I am just a bit irritated. Sometimes it just sounds like people are trying to be demeaning.

I understand fully, and please know I am not attempting to judge you. I hope only to offer my insight from experience. In my younger days, I was very much where you are now. As you are a younger generation of the body of the faithful it is a very responsible position you are in to continue to promote truths of the Catholic Church to others. I am an old fashioned and very conservative person who has seen the effects of too many unchecked “freedoms” in the Church Herself. We are, in my opinion, cleaning the house now, so to speak, and the tide is turning to better things. I never condone “to each his own” but do very much condone understanding as to why other think the way they do. I hope this forum and this site is helpful to you in you journey. It is a good thing to at least see someone who is seeking answers and not so much just coming up with them. I am very set in my ways, but as you will learn, and as God graces you with experiences in life, this will happen. God Bless You.

 

[CMatt25]

Mark 16:16

John 3:36

and John 6:40

Thanks Laneo. Jn 3:16 too.

 

[CMatt25]

We are, in my opinion, cleaning the house now, so to speak, and the tide is turning to better things.

How exactly are you cleaning house?

1. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

 

[laneo]

I understand fully, and please know I am not attempting to judge you. I hope only to offer my insight from experience. In my younger days, I was very much where you are now. As you are a younger generation of the body of the faithful it is a very responsible position you are in to continue to promote truths of the Catholic Church to others. I am an old fashioned and very conservative person who has seen the effects of too many unchecked “freedoms” in the Church Herself. We are, in my opinion, cleaning the house now, so to speak, and the tide is turning to better things. I never condone “to each his own” but do very much condone understanding as to why other think the way they do. I hope this forum and this site is helpful to you in you journey. It is a good thing to at least see someone who is seeking answers and not so much just coming up with them. I am very set in my ways, but as you will learn, and as God graces you with experiences in life, this will happen. God Bless You.

God Bless You too. I may not be the best Catholic, but I try, there are just somethings I may not agree with. My family in general has had some disagreements with some of the Laws set forth by the Church. I guess I am just used to hearing disagreement, where as most people on this form who are Catholic seem to be very strict and stern. Which isn’t something I was around at all. Go figure, I even attended Catholic school in PA where I grew up, and It never really seemed the way it does here. It was laid back, and aside from the fact recess was seperated, boys on the left, girls on the right, uniforms, etc. I don’t remember much. It didn’t seem to be strict and drill all these doctrines in our head, same thing for my sister. She went from kindergarten till her senior graduation. Occasionally, I did get a spanking though hahah It was deserved…Anyway, I guess I am going to go and get back to work. It’s so busy here…I am about to lose it. Luckily, I got my lunch break on time. Peace

 

[CMatt25]

Hi dude,

oh I really like you.
Finally I found a Catholic here who doesn’t think that the Catholic Church is the only way to heaven.
I was feeling like talking to Mormons or JWs (because they also say so!).
We are all united in Christ.
Christ is the way and the truth and ALL Christians will meet him when He comes again on the latter day!

AMEN!

What more is to say?

Thank you!

In Christ,
Esdra

Esdra, thank you for your kind words. I’m human and sometimes fail. But I try to spread our unity in Him while remembering it is Christ Whom is greater than any differences we might have. God bless you on your journey with Him. Peace to you always. And indeed let us pray for one another as the Apostle James taught us to do. :grouphug:

Your brother in Christ,
CMatt

 

[crazzeto]

One of the major things I don’t agree with is confession. I don’t understand why I have to confess my sins through a Priest? Why can’t I just ask God for forgivness myself through prayer? I had to do confession several times growing up and all it made me feel was uncomfortable.
Plus there are things I’ve heard that because I chose not to get married in the Catholic Church, that my marriage would not be recognized. Is that true?
Also…can my children still be baptized at ages 6 and 1?

This comes straight out of the bible:

John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.
John 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

James 5:16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.
James 5:17 Elias was a man passible like unto us: and with prayer he prayed that it might not rain upon the earth. And it rained not for three years and six months.

2Co 5:17 If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away. Behold all things are made new.
2Co 5:18 But all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.
2Co 5:19 For God indeed was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing to them their sins. And he hath placed in us the word of reconciliation.

Among many others, including a prefiguring of reconciliation from the Old testament (briefly, God demanded the Jews tell the preists their sins, after which an offering would be sacraficed and the priest would pray for the the individual).

The fact of the matter is, the sacrament of pennance was instituted by Christ so that your sins might be forgiven after baptism. I’m not sure what problem you have with it, perhaps you just find it intimidating? I’ll be honest, I still feel nervous, frequently, when entering the confessional. But trust me, you feel the weight being lifted, you feel new, free of the burden of sin. You might not even realize how great the burden is, until it’s been lifed. I would exhort you to run (don’t walk) to your nearest confessional! You’ll be incredibly happy that you did!

 

[CMatt25]

Your statement make me see clearly what you thoughts are. You want to convince yourself of the possibility of oversimplifying the issue, when I think you realize it is not so simple. I have a notion, by you statements, that you are young, possibly under 30 years of age. If that is the case, then the gift of time will be of a great blessing to you if you use it wisely.

I apparently did not use my time wisely. I am well beyond 30.

 

[Esdra]

If that is the case…then I probably have a spot in Hell with my name written all over it! But I don’t believe that and it’s hard to understand why the die hard Catholics think that every wrong doing is going to send you to Hell. Seriously…how long ago was the Bible written? Yeah…maybe things about contraception and whatnot are in the bible, but times have changed…situations have changed. I’m sure God understands that. YES…I was on birth control…but I can’t afford to have a ton of kids. It isn’t like back in the day when women stayed home to raise kids while the men worked. Both parents need to work to pretty much survive these days and all the necessities for children these days gets very expensive. Both my children were blessings from God. My husband had cancer and he was told he would never be able to have children. Plus I was on birth control when we had our first child. So what does that tell you? Obviously God is not punishing us for having sex before we got married…he provided us with a miracle. There are a lot of things that happened in my life that made me think I would never be accepted back into the Catholic Church and it wasn’t anything that I should be ashamed of. (Like sex before marriage, having a child out of wedlock, living with my husband before we got married)…things like that. Those things are frowned upon by the Catholic Church. But I don’t see that being wrong…we have been together for 10 years…we’re happily married…have 2 beautiful children. So if the church would have the nerve to tell my children we’re going to hell because I used contraception and my husband chooses not to go to church…then I guess it’ll be time to find a new chuch**. Church should be enjoyable for everyone not frightening! I want my children to enjoy the teachings of God…not be frightened by them saying that if you do this…this is going to happen to you. So I guess for now…I could consider myself a partial cafeteria Catholic because I don’t fully agree with everything.**

Hi jlengle,

I am impressed what you have written here.
You are on the right track.
The real teachings of Christ, the Holy Bible, are not firghtening at least Jesus says: "But Jesus immediately said to them: Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid. (Mt 14:27).

Start reading the bible. Maybe buy a “non Catholic Bible” - there are less explanations in it (and so you are less side-tracked), because if you faithfully pray to the Lord, He will give you understanding of what you are reading. - He will lead you to the fulness of truth, as He commanded us (cf. Jn 8:37)
Take your time. You need to get to know Jesus first before you can entrust Him your life and so become a (born again) Christian.
Really take your (new bought) bible into your hands and start reading. Everyday a bit. - You can also have a look for a bible-schedule in the internet. Then it is maybe easier when you know what you are reading when.
And then if you have gotten to know Jesus better you can make your desicion.

By the way: I think in ALL Christian denominations /Churches having sex before the marriage (and in very conservative groups also contraception) is regarded as not so good.
However, most protestant Churches won’t tell you that you are going to hell because you have done so, when you become a member of their Church. They will just tell you that it is god’s word and that you from now on keep His commandments. And maybe you learn it in a Bible School, if you later want to attend one that this is also doctrine you should preach, when preaching (although normally, except if you become accidentally JWs, you don’t have to. It is a gift that can be brought in in the body of Christ, like worship-guidance, teaching children and so on. - The Body of Christ is the community of all believers - yes even Catholics, the faithful ones, belong to it. Although they don’t want us to be part of it…; At least this is what some wrote here (indirectely)). What has happened has happened and you can’t change it anymore.

The great thing with the protestant Churches is that you are not told to come to hell because of every *** you do. If you make bull***, you can go to god and you can be sure that He will forgive you when you tell him and really want to repent. And if the burden is too high you can go to a any of your brothers and sisters of Christ and you may feel better. They will also pray with you.
You will see, when you have gotten Jesus better you will love Him so much that it will be easier and easier to hold His Commandments and to life a Christian, Holy Life.
(² guanophore: and yes, this is what we “Reborns” also teach! )

I would not hurry and run from one church to another if I were you.
First, get to know Jesus better, then you can still decide to which (protestant or not) Church you wanna go.

Peace,
in Christ,
Esdra

 

[CMatt25]

Um…no. If we all “got it wrong” then why are you on CAF? To “save” us? We all need prayers. So I pray for you and those you seem to agree with on here. Good luck on your journeys Home because that is where I truly think you are heading.

In Christ through Mary,
CF

CF, thank you and I’ll pray for you and everyone too. :grouphug: God bless.

 

[Tartini]

I apparently did not use my time wisely. I am well beyond 30.

If I am not mistaken (which I am not) I was addressing another poster. But if you do need explanation as to how we (you are Catholic I see) are “cleaning house”, it is by eradicating protestant influences brought on by Vatican 2. Now I am not going to open a can of worms here, that is just my feelings on that. There is no room for liberalism and modernism in the Church, and 40 odd years of slow erosion is not an impossible task to reverse. The social experiment of V2 was a failure overall, but some points were good. Not enough to make me leave certain Masses with the feeling I was just in a Catholic Church, so obviously there is more work to do.

 

[crazzeto]

If I am not mistaken (which I am not) I was addressing another poster. But if you do need explanation as to how we (you are Catholic I see) are “cleaning house”, it is by eradicating protestant influences brought on by Vatican 2. Now I am not going to open a can of worms here, that is just my feelings on that. There is no room for liberalism and modernism in the Church, and 40 odd years of slow erosion is not an impossible task to reverse. The social experiment of V2 was a failure overall, but some points were good. Not enough to make me leave certain Masses with the feeling I was just in a Catholic Church, so obviously there is more work to do.

Pardon, what single “protestant influence” was brought by Vatican II? Could you please cite not only what you see as a protestant influence, but from which official Vatican II teaching it came. If you could offer the document name, and brief citation that would suffice, thanks.

 

[anode]

In those denominations that do not agree with me, is it okay to use the birth controll pill? How about the “emergency” contraceptive the "morning after pill? Both can cause abortion you know. Is abortion okay?

What part exactly did you say others denoms do not agree? Was it the part about marriage and the marital embrace being created by God and not man?

You are off-topic.

 

[crazzeto]

Hi jlengle,

I am impressed what you have written here.
You are on the right track.
The real teachings of Christ, the Holy Bible, are not firghtening at least Jesus says: "But Jesus immediately said to them: Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid. (Mt 14:27).

Esdra

You seem to list your self as “Christian”, which typically on this forum means “Protestant” and in many cases “evangelical”. This would lead me to believe that you subscribe wholly to “the bible, and nothing but the bible”…

Well you also seem to laud the statement “maybe it is in the bible, who cares? Times changed…”… Well if the bible isn’t enough of an authority for you to change your behaviour, particularly given a protestant (and more so if you’re evangelical) tradition, then what is?

 

[Tartini]

Pardon, what single “protestant influence” was brought by Vatican II? Could you please cite not only what you see as a protestant influence, but from which official Vatican II teaching it came. If you could offer the document name, and brief citation that would suffice, thanks.

OK—I need not really go into the obvious, as the information is readily available. I stated that it was my opinion based on observation, not based on any documents. Liturgical abuses, too numerous to mention, should be enough. If you want more information their is a site available which is very informative and should provoke thought. Do a detailed research of the council and the problems that it encountered. The obvious influences are only seen by those who would seeming know the differences. I am not saying V2 was invalid, just that it caused more confusion than was expected.

catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/vaterror.html

 

[crazzeto]

OK—I need not really go into the obvious, as the information is readily available. I stated that it was my opinion based on observation, not based on any documents. Liturgical abuses, too numerous to mention, should be enough. If you want more information their is a site available which is very informative and should provoke thought. Do a detailed research of the council and the problems that it encountered. The obvious influences are only seen by those who would seeming know the differences. I am not saying V2 was invalid, just that it caused more confusion than was expected.

catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/vaterror.html

Now, actually you really do need to go into the obvious… You really need to pull up the documents of Vatican II, you really need to point out where this “protestant influence” came from… If you can’t do this, then your assertion that Vatican II introduce a single erroneous teaching (make no mistake, it is exactly this that you are claiming) is incorrect and you should probably, in the future, be more accurate about what your stating.

 

[anode]

If that is the case…then I probably have a spot in Hell with my name written all over it! But I don’t believe that and it’s hard to understand why the die hard Catholics think that every wrong doing is going to send you to Hell. Seriously…how long ago was the Bible written? Yeah…maybe things about contraception and whatnot are in the bible, but times have changed…situations have changed. I’m sure God understands that. YES…I was on birth control…but I can’t afford to have a ton of kids. It isn’t like back in the day when women stayed home to raise kids while the men worked. Both parents need to work to pretty much survive these days and all the necessities for children these days gets very expensive. Both my children were blessings from God. My husband had cancer and he was told he would never be able to have children. Plus I was on birth control when we had our first child. So what does that tell you? Obviously God is not punishing us for having sex before we got married…he provided us with a miracle. There are a lot of things that happened in my life that made me think I would never be accepted back into the Catholic Church and it wasn’t anything that I should be ashamed of. (Like sex before marriage, having a child out of wedlock, living with my husband before we got married)…things like that. Those things are frowned upon by the Catholic Church. But I don’t see that being wrong…we have been together for 10 years…we’re happily married…have 2 beautiful children. So if the church would have the nerve to tell my children we’re going to hell because I used contraception and my husband chooses not to go to church…then I guess it’ll be time to find a new chuch. Church should be enjoyable for everyone not frightening! I want my children to enjoy the teachings of God…not be frightened by them saying that if you do this…this is going to happen to you. So I guess for now…I could consider myself a partial cafeteria Catholic because I don’t fully agree with everything.

jlengle,

I agree with CARV. I have noticed that the forum is now way off-topic and has not addressed your concerns for some time. I suggest that you, a trial member, leave and not come back. You are the second new member in as many days who has asked a specific question and gotten burned by the answers.

You have a fine marriage, husband and children. Don’t disturb any of this. Seek out your own answers as some of us have suggested and move on.

 

[Tartini]

Now, actually you really do need to go into the obvious… You really need to pull up the documents of Vatican II, you really need to point out where this “protestant influence” came from… If you can’t do this, then your assertion that Vatican II introduce a single erroneous teaching (make no mistake, it is exactly this that you are claiming) is incorrect and you should probably, in the future, be more accurate about what your stating.

You are misunderstanding what I am saying or just afraid that I am correct. The point I am attempting to make (which should seem obvious to any Catholic) is that certain liturgical reforms were based on protestant practices in order to gain more people (protestants) into the Catholic Church. There are some who take this very seriously, and not just for granted. I gave you a link that states it plainly. I do not want to get off of the topic, which was whether or not the original poster should stay in the Church or not. However, the current state that the Church is in, is not altogether conducive to gaining converts left and right. I am stating a personal opinion, not a general consensus. I am sorry if you are offended at the statement. I think you are intelligent enough to research what you must. It is not a question of what is, but what appears to be. It is my personal observation. When I say “clean house” perhaps I should have just said “a little light dusting” and avoided confusion. I don’t want to go off topic.

 

[crazzeto]

You are misunderstanding what I am saying or just afraid that I am correct. The point I am attempting to make (which should seem obvious to any Catholic) is that certain liturgical reforms were based on protestant practices in order to gain more people (protestants) into the Catholic Church. There are some who take this very seriously, and not just for granted. I gave you a link that states it plainly. I do not want to get off of the topic, which was whether or not the original poster should stay in the Church or not. However, the current state that the Church is in, is not altogether conducive to gaining converts left and right. I am stating a personal opinion, not a general consensus. I am sorry if you are offended at the statement. I think you are intelligent enough to research what you must. It is not a question of what is, but what appears to be. It is my personal observation. When I say “clean house” perhaps I should have just said “a little light dusting” and avoided confusion. I don’t want to go off topic.

What liturgical reform, and which document did it come from. I understand exactly what you are saying, and I’m challenging you because you can’t just make blanket statements like you are and pretend like it’s “obvious” and “everyone knows that”…

 

[Tartini]

What liturgical reform, and which document did it come from. I understand exactly what you are saying, and I’m challenging you because you can’t just make blanket statements like you are and pretend like it’s “obvious” and “everyone knows that”…

It is in the link I gave you. Simply read that and form your own opinions. There is more to be observed by practice alone than what the documents suggest should have been done. Some parishes have taken vast liberties, others have not. It is the difference between being liberal or conservative. You are asking to start an entire discussion and get an answer quickly. It has taken 40 some years for the situation to get where it is at today. Rather than offer a mount of documents that launched the situation, one has to simply open their eyes and see it.