Stay Catholic or change religions?

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Peter passed away a few years ago.
So then, Peter left no successor? Christ established His Church upon Peter. . .and then on Peter’s death it went where? Where is the Scripture that says, “Upon this rock I will build my Church. . for the next 30 years or so. Then you’re on your own, guys. And hurry up with the book, 350 years passes quicker than you’d think!”

If Christ did not establish His Church on Peter, on whom was it established and where is the contemporary continuous teaching from the time of the apostles that supports this?
 
Peter passed away a few years ago.
True - and yet, Jesus promised him, “until the end of time.”

Which means that Jesus must have had a plan in mind for the time after Peter’s death, right?

The reason the Church is still here is because Peter passed the authority that he had.

Pope Benedict XVI is the Successor of Peter, as we see when we look at the line of Popes.

Now, perhaps you are thinking that someone just came up with that line of Popes very recently, and just made up a bunch of names to put in it. (I used to think that. I thought that someone was making a “scholarly guess” about who the early Popes were. I actually had no idea that we have their writings, and their diaries, and all kinds of information about them, even available in English, and that the Vatican has been keeping records about them, ever since it was the jail where the earliest Popes, including Peter, were being kept by the Roman governors. Once Christianity became legal, they simply turned the jail where they had been kept into the Church headquarters. I suppose they were trying to save on letterhead - at least they wouldn’t have to change the address. 😉

The first person to give us a line of Popes was the Bishop Irenaeus, of Lyons, in his essay, “Against the Heresies.” He wrote that in about 180 AD, or, within the lifetime of the grandchildren of those whom Jesus dandled on His knee and blessed. (Mark 16:10-13)
St. Irenaeus:
  1. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.
So, we already had the concept of the Succession of the Popes, with Peter as the first Pope, more than two centuries before we even had a New Testament. 🙂
 
Firmly I believe and truly
God is three and God is one;
And I next acknowledge duly
Manhood taken by the Son

And I trust and hope most fully
In that manhood crucified;
And I love supremely, solely
Christ who for my sins has died.

And I hold in veneration,
For the love of him alone,
Holy Church as his creation,
And her teachings as his own.

Praise and thanks be ever given
With and through the angel host,
To the God of earth and heaven,
Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

From todays LOTH. If you all think that is creepy…so be it…then I fully acknowledge that I am creepy. Do I know ALL the church’s teachings? No…but I’m learning…and I’m willing to bet when I fully investigate I will find that some of them I may not initially agree with…are mostly likely similiar to vegetables when I was a child…I didn’t like them at first but they were for my own welfare. It’s a beautiful place to be in because it lets me just simply focus on Christ!
 
CMAT25

Do I need to start praying that your parish starts offering coffee and dougnuts?:D:D:D:p
 
No, “docile submission” to the Roman Catholic Church - or any other organization of men - is what’s creepy.
This reflects the heart of a person who has been wounded by authority. Jesus’ yoke is easy, and HIs burden light. there is nothing to fear when we become docile with Him.

James. 1:21 – Receive with meekness the implanted Word which is able to save your souls

Receive with meekness - To have a teachable spirit. It is to be without resisting, disputing or questioning. We are to have a heart that is open to the truth of God’s Word.

The implanted word which is able to save your souls – The word needs to be in our hearts.
Implanted - To be rooted and engrafted. It simply is the rooting of a seed in the heart. To be stuck in there.

James tells us that we are able to receive the grace of our souls. He outlines three major points that need to be considered in doing so.

Receive the word of God.
We are to consent to its laws and doctrines. Our hearts need to be receptive to its teachings and ways.

Yield ourselves to the word of God.
To be submissive to the teachings. To be hungry to understand and know the truth of the word.

Be desirious of change.
To be wanting to change and to be molded and formed by the precepts and doctrines of the Apostles.

None of this implies suspending one’s ability to think and reason.
 
jharek, then would you please inform the powers to be to change the definition of who they claim as Catholic.
Not necessary CMatt, because they have also defined heresy, apostasy, lapsed, not in good standing, state of mortal sin, excommunication, and several other qualifiers that describe a Catholic who rejects the Teachings of the Church.👍

You are not by any means the first person to come along and think that your ideas are better than the Apostles. It has been going on since shortly after the Church was born. We can even see it in the book of Acts.

I had an idea, though when I was praying for you today. What about founding a new order of Catholics? We could name it after Hymenaeus! CMatt, of the Hymenaen Order!
 
Yes, I do (though I don’t get the wine really, if that matters). But for instance, in people not agreeing with everything. I know a lot of Catholics including myself that have eaten before receiving the Eucharist. I mean, I don’t find that to be a problem, and there are many others who think the same.

i forgot to quote: this was for the person who asked me about receiving the Eucharist…
This is a serious problem, laneo, and it does matter. It means that you are recieving the Body and Blood in an unworthy manner, and are eating and drinking condemnation upon yourself.

The reason the Church is so strict about Communion is because there are serious spiritual consequences if one receives it when they are not in a state of grace.

If you think what is offered is “wine” then you should not be receiving it.

If you nare not in agreement or obedience to the teachings of the Church, then you are lying with your body when you receive it. This is sacriledge, which adds another sin to sins that have already been committed.
 
Actually, it is the “Catholic Church”. “Roman” is only a part.
Copies of my membership papers dated both 1964 and 2009 say I was baptized according to the rite of the ROMAN Catholic Church. On the reverse sisde of one of them it even notes my First Communion and my Confirmation.
 
Yes, I do (though I don’t get the wine really, if that matters). But for instance, in people not agreeing with everything. I know a lot of Catholics including myself that have eaten before receiving the Eucharist. I mean, I don’t find that to be a problem, and there are many others who think the same.

i forgot to quote: this was for the person who asked me about receiving the Eucharist…
I don’t either. I don’t really like the taste of wine. I’ve never eaten once I leave my house though so if it’s still an hr I meet that deadline! I wouldn’t sweat it though either if I were you. I’m not sure though if all those Catholics pass the litmus test. 😉
 
I understand, but like I said, we are humans, God gave us a mind, and a mind is a dangerous thing.
No, there is nothing dangerous about that which God created to serve Him for His glory. what is dangerous is the mind that is not in subjection to the Creator. Such a mind is the playground of the devil.
It usually will disagree with something. Like I said, yes I believe in the Eucharist, but eating a piece of toast 45 minutes before I receive it is wrong?
If you cannot discipline yourself to eat the toast 60 min before there is a problem.

This is the beauty of spiritual disciplines. they show us where our weaknesses are so we can correct them, and stay on the straight an narrow path.
I just cant believe Christ would get upset over something like that. Is it biblical? Sure I understand fasting is Biblical, but I am just referring to when Jesus had the last supper or communion in general.
You bet it is absolutely biblical to discipline our flesh and subject it to God.

Many of us, instead of focusing on how much we can show God we love Him, are thinking about how much we can get away with and not get into trouble.
 
I used to drink coffee (with milk) within one hour of the Eucharist, I drank it on my way to mass, and since mass only lasts 25 min at most, was not completing the fast… I started getting really distracted at mass. I went to Confession, and now I get up 1/2 hour earlier to have my coffee.
Was it caffeinated? Maybe it was the caffeine.
 
So you didn’t agree with everything at first, but you did research and just just convinced yourself to believe it.
I agree with T. and jmcrae. It is not a matter of “convince yourself to believe”. Through study and prayer, we allow the HS to lead us into all Truth. We are transformed by the renewing of our minds, and brought into the obedience of faith. It is something that God does inside us, all we have to do is cooperate. He is at wrok within us to will and to do His good pleasure.
I suppose that is what we must do, but us being humans, I just feel when rules/doctrines are presented to us, we abide by them the best we can, but there always some that we may “bend” or “break” or not agree with.
What we must do is love God with our whole heart, mind, soul and strength. That means we have a responsibility to receive His revelation to us, understand it (to the best of our ability) and obey it.

Yes, you are right, we “abide by them as best we can”. Even if we don 't understand or agree, we choose to obey,a nd ask God to help us understand, and to bring our minds into conformity with His.

When we fail to be perfect in obedience, by bending or breaking, we repent and start again.
God gave us a mind, and its hard to stop it from thinking the way we want to think. I mean there’s not one thing you disagree with, at all? I find that hard to believe.I have never met one Catholic who agrees with everything, well at least until now.
Yes, it is hard to stop the mind from going against God. Of ourselves, we could never bring the mind into subjection to Christ, but because His HS dwells within us, we are able to do all things. 👍
 
It’s not written out explicitly in the Bible “you must fast for one hour at a minimum” because that is our current discipline.
Oh that’s right. Current disciplines. The things that are changeable.
 
Well, I do understand fasting before communion is a respect thing, but I don’t think it leads to condemnation. I guess I am just ignorant about the Catholic Church, I may acknowledge the basis of what Christianity is all about, Apostolic Succession, etc, but to say those who don’t follow the CC (but another denomination) are not being true to Christ, I just don’t see that, sorry. I guess I am just yet another, cafeteria Catholic.
:eek: Laneo, now it’s you who better be careful 😃 or you might have to add an adjective to your ID to remain a Catholic! 🤷
 
Oh that’s right. Current disciplines. The things that are changeable.
Right. We have to have some things that change because cultures change and develop and grow (hopefully for the better).

We don’t still ‘recline at table’ to receive the Eucharist. That is a discipline that changed because rather than having to receive the Eucharist in a private home because the early Christians were in hiding, we can now receive in Churches.

And whereas we may still ‘kneel’ to receive Him, we can stand as well. Bishops make ‘pastoral’ decisions.

We don’t separate men and women at churches either, the way that the early Christians did.

We don’t pool our money into a common purse the way Christians did in the Acts of the Apostles and then support the entire Christian community from that purse. . .but we still try to contribute to help support the Christian community in many ways.

We have fewer ‘feast days’ (you would have loved the earlier times of Michaelmas, Martinmas, Lammastide etc. not to mention the 12 days of Christmas, the little fasts of Advent and the great fasts of Lent). We have a shorter Eucharistic fast. We have EMHCs who can help bring the Eucharist to the sick and shut ins. We have both an OF AND and EF Mass.

And yet we can go online-- or into a trusty book store–and find Latin breviaries, ‘classic’ Baltimore Catechisms, as well as the latest (2nd) edition of the CCC, on-line access to Canon Law. . .we can ‘watch’ the Pope celebrate Mass when EWTN broadcasts it. . .we can hear MIDI files of hymns from Gregorian chant to Praise and Worship. . .

We are both rediscovering our great heritage. . .and in celebration with our brothers and sisters from other cultures we are also learning more, and we ourselves are building new Catholic traditions. The ‘gold’ will become treasure for generations to come; the ‘dross’ will fade. But the ‘gold’ will never contradict the previous generations.
 
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