Stealing or not

[chataranga]

Greetings,
I was having lunch with a friend and former co-worker last week and explained these two scenarios to him and would now like to see what others’ believe.
The first: you are in dept. store with someone and this person picks up a magazine and reads it(more or less) while shopping. Once done shopping this person puts the magazine in the rack at the check out.
The second: Again while shopping you are in the produce dept. and see a gentleman with his wife(I presume). While she is moving from place to place picking up produce and bringing it back to the cart which he has control of he is pretty much hovering around the grape stand and every once in a while he makes his way to the grapes and eats a few.
Just thought of this one as I was typing. A woman I know used to buy outfits, dresses, hats, etc… for an event such as a wedding or some party, keep the tags on them(hidden) and return the items shortly after using them.
Any thoughts you’d like to share on whether any or all of these instances were or were not stealing? Blessings and take care.

 

[Sunbreak]

All are examples of stealing. The store is not a library and so the guy should not be reading the whole thing in the store. The grocery store is selling produce - not giving away free samples so the man is stealing by eating them. In the case of the woman who actually buys the outfits and then returns them, the store is not in the business of renting clothes but selling them and her wearing them may mean the clothes are not in new condition for the person who would really like to purchase them. So in a sense she is “stealing” the new conditions of the clothes.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Greetings,
I was having lunch with a friend and former co-worker last week and explained these two scenarios to him and would now like to see what others’ believe.
The first: you are in dept. store with someone and this person picks up a magazine and reads it(more or less) while shopping. Once done shopping this person puts the magazine in the rack at the check out.
The second: Again while shopping you are in the produce dept. and see a gentleman with his wife(I presume). While she is moving from place to place picking up produce and bringing it back to the cart which he has control of he is pretty much hovering around the grape stand and every once in a while he makes his way to the grapes and eats a few.
Just thought of this one as I was typing. A woman I know used to buy outfits, dresses, hats, etc… for an event such as a wedding or some party, keep the tags on them(hidden) and return the items shortly after using them.
Any thoughts you’d like to share on whether any or all of these instances were or were not stealing? Blessings and take care.

I’m not sure about #1 and #3.

For #1: It could be that some magazines are not in plastic because it’s a marketing strategy and they WANT people to look at them

For #3: The woman does pay for the merchandise, and there is the chance that the store may not take back the item. It’s almost like she’s renting the items, even though there’s no direct contract. The hiding tags thing sounds sneaky, though.

Maybe that store should set up formal rentals.

 

[Bran_Stark]

Greetings,
The first: you are in dept. store with someone and this person picks up a magazine and reads it(more or less) while shopping. Once done shopping this person puts the magazine in the rack at the check out.

Oh come on. This is not stealing. I read books and magazines in stores all the time. When you buy a magazine, you aren’t paying for the right to read it one time, you are paying for permanent possession of the physical object.

 

[Elena321]

Greetings,
I was having lunch with a friend and former co-worker last week and explained these two scenarios to him and would now like to see what others’ believe.
The first: you are in dept. store with someone and this person picks up a magazine and reads it(more or less) while shopping. Once done shopping this person puts the magazine in the rack at the check out.
The second: Again while shopping you are in the produce dept. and see a gentleman with his wife(I presume). While she is moving from place to place picking up produce and bringing it back to the cart which he has control of he is pretty much hovering around the grape stand and every once in a while he makes his way to the grapes and eats a few.
Just thought of this one as I was typing. A woman I know used to buy outfits, dresses, hats, etc… for an event such as a wedding or some party, keep the tags on them(hidden) and return the items shortly after using them.
Any thoughts you’d like to share on whether any or all of these instances were or were not stealing? Blessings and take care.

I don’t see how the first one would be stealing.
It’s like you sometimes try on clothes and don’t end up purchasing them.
That’s not stealing so neither is flipping through a magazine.
If someone- in an unlikely event-spent all day going to department stores to spend all day reading many whole magazines this might be stealing or at least wrong in some way but this is a highly unlikely scenario.

Number 2 would depend on the policy of the store.
Some places,especially some market stall holders,encourage people to try the fruit to test their quality.
Other places might consider it stealing.

Three is stealing or dishonesty if she doesn’t return the clothing in the same condition as new.
Ie:if she leaves her perfume smell on it and claims it was already there etc.

 

[quinone]

in my point of view, everything is stealing.

actually, i can’t believe other people would think all the other situations are not considered stealing.

 

[MyNameIsDan]

(There’s no laugh smiley?) I see there is a divide among the people.

Side note: It’s way past midnight here, so this is a hurried answer.

If we define stealing according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we might arrive closer to an answer.

Here is the link: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a7.htm

I haven’t read everything, but the very first paragraph says the following:

The seventh commandment forbids unjustly taking or keeping the goods of one’s neighbor and wronging him in any way with respect to his goods. It commands justice and charity in the care of earthly goods and the fruits of men’s labor. For the sake of the common good, it requires respect for the universal destination of goods and respect for the right to private property. Christian life strives to order this world’s goods to God and to fraternal charity.

Scenario #1: Using the magazine while shopping.

It appears that this would be stealing because you are holding onto a magazine which could be sold. If you’ve read far enough while shopping, then you know it’s good enough to buy – otherwise why would you still be reading it? By holding onto it, you aren’t necessarily robbing the merchant of the item, but you are robbing them of the opportunity to sell the item. At the same time, in terms of stealing, having said what I did, we must also ask whether the loss of opportunity constitutes stealing. You did benefit by reading the magazine against the loss of opportunity of the merchant, so in that sense, it seems like you stole. Maybe not the item, but the value the item could have had. The magazine may have value, but without anyone to buy it, it won’t have value (ie. the value won’t materialize or manifest tangibly). The merchant is relying on others being able to see that item in order for it to sell, and so in some ways, the value is contingent on its availability – which you took.

Scenario #2: Man getting grapes

This is clearly stealing. The grapes are there for purchase, and your consumption without payment will not bring the merchant a profit. A better question might be whether sampling a grape to decide whether you should buy is stealing.

Scenario #3: Woman buying dress and returning it after use with the intent to not completely purchase it.

This is similar to Scenario #1 - the merchant loses an opportunity to sell. It is a bit different, however, because while they do lose the opportunity to sell, it is not the case that the dress could lose value (assuming it is returned in the same condition) in the sense that the value is reliant on a time frame as in the case of the magazine. The magazine loses value when the new ones hit the shelves. However, it is still similar in that an opportunity is lost. As well, the woman did not truly purchase the dress and she didn’t even rent it. She “bought” it with the intent to return it. It’s not stealing in the sense that you took something that isn’t yours. But it is stealing according to the definition we’re using since you are keeping the good of another and you are wronging him by causing him to lose the opportunity to sell his good. It’s also important to emphasize that the dress (the goods) is meant for selling. This is part of it being a good.

Remember that an item has value not (necessarily) because it is material but because people give it value. Part of the value of the item is that it can make a profit (perhaps for the merchant’s/owner’s well-being, greed, doesn’t matter). Your taking the time to use it – even though you don’t damage it and return it as once before – causes them to lose out on an opportunity to sell, and since that opportunity has value, then perhaps it is the case that you are stealing.

Conclusion:

After some deliberation, I conclude #1 and #3 to definitely be stealing (#2 as well, of course, but I already made that clear).

 

[Hodegetria]

Second two are stealing, IMO. Getting the use of garment without paying for it. Eating food without paying can get a person arrested and prosecuted; clearly stealing.

First one, . I do it when the wait in line is too long, to help me decide to buy the book or not. (If just passing time, I pull out my iPhone and read.) Looking through books and magazines in a dedicated bookstore is known as browsing. I see no difference in a grocery store selling books, unless you’re hanging around for an hour, just reading magazines.

 

[Bran_Stark]

Scenario #1: Using the magazine while shopping.

It appears that this would be stealing because you are holding onto a magazine which could be sold. If you’ve read far enough while shopping, then you know it’s good enough to buy – otherwise why would you still be reading it?

First of all, it’s by no means guaranteed that the reader considers it “good enough to buy”. Maybe he considers it mildly entertaining, but not worth reading over and over again. But even if it is “good enough to buy”, so what? You’re not under any obligation to purchase something just because you are impressed by it.

Now, if you’re hanging on to this magazine for hours and hours and the management is requesting you to either buy it or leave it, at that point you’d be guilty of something, sure. But a reasonable amount of browsing is not a sin. Especially if the store has multiple copies of the magazine, as most do.

 

[MyNameIsDan]

First of all, it’s by no means guaranteed that the reader considers it “good enough to buy”. Maybe he considers it mildly entertaining, but not worth reading over and over again. But even if it is “good enough to buy”, so what? You’re not under any obligation to purchase something just because you are impressed by it.

Now, if you’re hanging on to this magazine for hours and hours and the management is requesting you to either buy it or leave it, at that point you’d be guilty of something, sure. But a reasonable amount of browsing is not a sin. Especially if the store has multiple copies of the magazine, as most do.

My argument holds even if it’s still not good enough to buy. Just because you’re under no obligation to buy it does not mean you aren’t stealing. I’m using the definition I stated above. The fact is that it is unjust to hold onto the good for that long (considering they were shopping and they were able to “more or less” read it as described by the OP – it’s not unreasonable to assume it took quite some time).

What is considered a “reasonable amount of browsing”? Your whole trip through the store? What if the store didn’t have enough copies? What if the store ran out of copies? Even apart from all that, the object which could be stolen is the copy you hold, I don’t think it’s relevant that there are other copies. I could also put in other conditions “What if the copy the person is holding onto is from the check out where it’s most likely to be bought?” and so on. Did you get the chance to read Situation #3 and what follows? I clarify a bit more there.

Your holding onto it diminishes the possibility for that particular copy you have to have its full value.

 

[CB_Catholic]

A lot of you haven’t caught on to the marketing strategies of the grocery stores. Items are placed in certain locations because they sell there. For example, bananas. In my grocery store, bananas are in the produce department. But, they also are hanging off racks in the cereal department, because a shopper may buy a box of cereal, see the bananas there, and think “Boy, I bet those bananas would taste good on this cereal.” I’ve even seen strawberries in the cereal aisle. That is impulse buying, and grocery stores are very good at fostering it.

That is why the candy and gum and small toys are next to the checkout–so little Eddie sees it, wants it, and Mommy buys it to shut him up. She shouldn’t, but it happens all the time. I see it every time I go to the grocery store, and my own kids tried to pull this one off a lot.

Those magazines are there for you to pick up, browse, get interested in an article or recipe, and buy it to finish the story or make the recipe (which adds eventually to your grocery bill). You aren’t stealing by reading them–you are being had by the grocery store. They place those magazines there purposely for you to grab and read because it generates sales. You may think people are smart enough to avoid the trap, but they aren’t. The store knows what it is doing.

No, it is no sin, you are doing what the store wants you to do.

 

[quinone]

^in my opinion, you look/read the front and back pages of a magazine (or book) and then decide to buy. i don’t think it is proper to browse before deciding to buy. again, just my opinion.

 

[chataranga]

Hi folks,
Maybe I should clarify with some more information regarding the incident as far as the magazine simply for arguments sake. I was in the dept. store with my daughter-in-law and we had gone there to buy groceries, paper products, etc…Part way into the store with some items in the cart we were at the magazine/book aisle and she picked up the magazine(something to do with celebrities) and started to unconsciously flip through the pages as we were looking for stuff on her list. Half paying attention to what she wanted to buy and half paying attention to the magazine. I mentioned to her we might get more done if she put the magazine down and read it when she got home. She said she wasn’t buying the magazine she was only browsing to see what gossip was in there about the different celebs. Once done shopping and at the check out she put the mag in with the other ones that are usually there. Sorry for any misconceptions due to lack of info. Thank you all for participating and sharing your thoughts. For the record I believed and still believe that all of these are examples of stealing. Blessings to all.