Stealing or not.....?

[1ke]

There is a section, when accessing your bill online, that states outstanding charges/subscriptions in relation to rentals, etc… and this is showing empty, so I do believe their system is not working.

I admit to watching 2 more rentals, :blushing: just to ‘see’ if the charges came up but no they didn’t. Movies, I admit, I would not have bothered renting, as I’m not that big a movie fan, at all, it was more a case of seeing if I could and then my conscience started wondering.

Needless to say, I would pay for all 3 - ~ £10, but no charges are coming up and hence the thread.

Yes, this is wrong and you should tell the company of the issue.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I have a TV package with SKY, unfortunately due to my older provider stopping digital TV last year and that was what they offered, at a discount for a year. I find the fees, by SKY, ridiculous but the billionaire owner has the market sown up.

Anyhow, I decided to rent a movie that I’d wanted to see, for months. The price was displayed on the screen, I accepted it and the movie went to the viewing section. Watched it, and then realised after checking my bill, a week or so later, I had not been charged for it, so there is a software fault on their part, as the movie downloaded for me to watch - and they have my account details to take the fee - but it has not been taken.

I do not wish to tell SKY that the charge was not taken from my account - as they’ll no doubt think I was a sandwich short of a picnic.

So, is this ‘stealing’? SKY also delete the movie from the viewing section, after several days, so it is not a purchase per se. If it was a goods item from a store that I had left without paying for, I would return and pay for the goods - however this is something I’m not really wont to do - especially as I think SKY’s a complete rip-off in the first place and the fault completely lies with their system, as I was/am prepared to pay the price and had assumed that was the case - i.e. the money had been taken.

Don’t worry about it - it probably won’t happen again. I had a similar experience at the pet store - the clerk was kind of an airhead and forgot to scan the dry food (she did the cans ok) and just put it in the bag. It was $21. I knew it was happening but didn’t say anything. Usually I do say something if an item is overlooked. But I was kind of mad at the store because I left my bike gloves in their one time last winter (on my bike, dead of winter) and no one could find them - they were expensive gloves. I had to ride home without them - I rode there with them…the clerk was so rude when I asked her to help me look. I think they were left in the shopping basket and just fell down somewhere under the counter when she took it, but the clerk just would not really look anywhere - no other customers. Long story short. I told myself the $21 went to replacing the gloves. (which were well over that) Eye for an eye.

Also I didn’t make the mistake. I just decided if it happened again - I would say something.

 

[on_the_hill]

When we got cable internet at home we were on a low tier cable package. The Internet “channel” was carried along with channels in a more expensive package.

In order for us to get internet, the technician had to tweak the distribution box outside our house. The result is that we got a whole lot of channels we weren’t billed for. He said the company would send someone out to install a special switch so we could get internet without the channels we weren’t paying for.

The company never sent anyone out. We got an upgraded cable tv package for over ten years even though we weren’t paying for it. I figured that was their decision

 

[pepipop]

Don’t worry about it - it probably won’t happen again. I had a similar experience at the pet store - the clerk was kind of an airhead and forgot to scan the dry food (she did the cans ok) and just put it in the bag. It was $21. I knew it was happening but didn’t say anything. Usually I do say something if an item is overlooked. But I was kind of mad at the store because I left my bike gloves in their one time last winter (on my bike, dead of winter) and no one could find them - they were expensive gloves. I had to ride home without them - I rode there with them…the clerk was so rude when I asked her to help me look. I think they were left in the shopping basket and just fell down somewhere under the counter when she took it, but the clerk just would not really look anywhere - no other customers. Long story short. I told myself the $21 went to replacing the gloves. (which were well over that) Eye for an eye.

Also I didn’t make the mistake. I just decided if it happened again - I would say something.

haha that was definitely a good case for ‘an eye for an eye’!

Yes, something similar happened to me the other day, with goods bought from a store that were not checked through and I will go back to pay for these. I had bought several, and as they were heavy left them in my trolley, putting one through at the till and then I meant to tell the girl the actual total number, i.e. three. But I forgot, so ended up going home with 2 for free!

 

[pepipop]

When we got cable internet at home we were on a low tier cable package. The Internet “channel” was carried along with channels in a more expensive package.

In order for us to get internet, the technician had to tweak the distribution box outside our house. The result is that we got a whole lot of channels we weren’t billed for. He said the company would send someone out to install a special switch so we could get internet without the channels we weren’t paying for.

The company never sent anyone out. We got an upgraded cable tv package for over ten years even though we weren’t paying for it. I figured that was their decision

As the company knew of the fault and then did not fix it, you were completely off the hook!

 

[DeniseNY]

Don’t worry about it - it probably won’t happen again. I had a similar experience at the pet store - the clerk was kind of an airhead and forgot to scan the dry food (she did the cans ok) and just put it in the bag. It was $21. I knew it was happening but didn’t say anything. Usually I do say something if an item is overlooked. But I was kind of mad at the store because I left my bike gloves in their one time last winter (on my bike, dead of winter) and no one could find them - they were expensive gloves. I had to ride home without them - I rode there with them…the clerk was so rude when I asked her to help me look. I think they were left in the shopping basket and just fell down somewhere under the counter when she took it, but the clerk just would not really look anywhere - no other customers. Long story short. I told myself the $21 went to replacing the gloves. (which were well over that) Eye for an eye.

Also I didn’t make the mistake. I just decided if it happened again - I would say something.

Sorry, but this (just as is the case in in the OP) is stealing.

 

[on_the_hill]

As the company knew of the fault and then did not fix it, you were completely off the hook!

I think it probably wasn’t worth the expense of sending out a technician to make the change.

Here’s one: I know a guy who has very questionable ethics. Very. He’s actually been convicted of fraud. Anyway, one day he looked at his bank account and saw $800 in there that shouldn’t have been there. He did the rational (to him) thing, and spent it. Several days later, the bank called to tell him it wanted its money back. It was a mistake. He said since the money appeared in his account, he thought it must have been his, so he spent it.

He knew very well that it wasn’t his money. The bank got its money back.

 

[on_the_hill]

Years ago I found a payment had been posted to my student loan account. I called the servicing center more than once and told them that I hadn’t made the payment that was posted. They insisted that I, or someone, had made the payment. (my concern was that someone made a payment to a different account and was arguing they their account hadn’t been credited). So that’s how it ended. I didn’t make that payment, and the company insisted that I had. $120 to my benefit.

 

[exnihilo]

I don’t think it is stealing because stealing involves material objects. The media industry has done a good job convincing many people that this is theft but it isn’t. But it is certainly wrong to receive something you are not supposed to. If you’d call them if the loss was on your side then you should certainly call them in this case. However, if they are anything like our cable monopoly I’d probably not bother to call them. I’d be wasting my own time waiting on hold forever. Over what is a relatively small amount of money I don’t think an obligation exists to correct the issue.

 

[Geist]

I don’t think it is stealing because stealing involves material objects. The media industry has done a good job convincing many people that this is theft but it isn’t.

If no one pays for films/books/etc who pays the authors/cameramen/crew/publisher/papermill/etc.?

It is absolutely stealing whether the item in question is physically tangible/material or not.

 

[pepipop]

Years ago I found a payment had been posted to my student loan account. I called the servicing center more than once and told them that I hadn’t made the payment that was posted. They insisted that I, or someone, had made the payment. (my concern was that someone made a payment to a different account and was arguing they their account hadn’t been credited). So that’s how it ended. I didn’t make that payment, and the company insisted that I had. $120 to my benefit.

You seem to get all the luck!

Yes, it is illegal not to disclose unknown funds in your account. The banks usually get it back at some point - as it will most likely be a human error and they can trace it.

 

[exnihilo]

If no one pays for films/books/etc who pays the authors/cameramen/crew/publisher/papermill/etc.?

It is absolutely stealing whether the item in question is physically tangible/material or not.

Patrons can and do pay for media to be produced. But who pays for something isn’t what makes something theft. Theft requires depriving someone of use of the item taken. That doesn’t describe what goes on when you copy movies or download them for free. Again, it might be wrong to do so, but not because it is theft.

 

[Geist]

Patrons can and do pay for media to be produced. But who pays for something isn’t what makes something theft. Theft requires depriving someone of use of the item taken. That doesn’t describe what goes on when you copy movies or download them for free. Again, it might be wrong to do so, but not because it is theft.

The item was produced with an expectation it would be sold. Having it taken without being paid for is theft.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Sorry, but this (just as is the case in in the OP) is stealing.

I should have made more of it with the clerk, explained that the gloves were very expensive and that I had had them a long time - sentimental value (I skied with them - if you can call what I did skiing; it is a stretch) Good memories. If I had handled it better, maybe she would have let me go behind the counter to look. She was very young - obviously didn’t care, which is fair I guess. I looked for them before I left the store - I retraced my steps from the bike through the store, to the shelf, to the counter, etc. I seemed to remember putting them in the basket which she took. (actually drove back on the weekend in daylight too - left my number) If the manager had been there, I think she might have offered me some kind of credit - I am a loyal long standing customer. I lost the gloves in the store, no question. Where else could they be? Not in my backpack or by the bike. These kind of gloves are like $70.

Anyway, I think God punished me in advance (remember future events affect past ones). When I was about 12 my grandmother sent me a birthday card with a $100 dollar bill - I accidentally threw the whole thing away.
:choocho:

 

[exnihilo]

The item was produced with an expectation it would be sold. Having it taken without being paid for is theft.

Expectations of sale have nothing to do with whether something can be stolen. I could make or possess an object merely to enjoy it myself and if someone took it that would be theft. The expectation of sales doesn’t even have anything to do with IP. In fact there are software licenses that allow you to use code so long as you don’t sell the resulting product.

Nothing was taken in this case. The ‘owner’ still has whatever it was that the person ‘stole’.

 

[pepipop]

Expectations of sale have nothing to do with whether something can be stolen. I could make or possess an object merely to enjoy it myself and if someone took it that would be theft. The expectation of sales doesn’t even have anything to do with IP. In fact there are software licenses that allow you to use code so long as you don’t sell the resulting product.

Nothing was taken in this case. The ‘owner’ still has whatever it was that the person ‘stole’.

Interesting points.

In effect, I leased the product that is then taken back by, or returned to, the owner - possibly like renting a car. Needless to say, you would not be allowed to rent a car, before payment details were given, i.e. a CC and payment would be taken from your card on the car’s return. My payment details are on their file, hence the only reason I can access their ‘rental store’ in the first place, as a paying customer.

Today, I paid for goods, I mistakenly took from a supermarket, last week. I asked the teller to ring through 3 items although there was only one, stating my earlier mistake, to which I got a response ‘you’re very honest.’

However that’s a cut a dried scenario. Items were bought and taken from the store that I now possess that were removed from the store’s stock, hence removal of these items would effect their profit margins, their stock take, etc… As they usually bring these items in regularly and they are sold continually throughout the year.

However, I do not see how SKY could budget for the number of downloads they would receive for a film rental, it’s completely unknown as would be their ‘profit’ margins from this business activity - not that may mean anything at all!.

Getting myself more mumbo-jumbofied.

Edit: It would definitely be stealing and illegal, IF I had ‘fixed’ the TV software, so that it enabled me to receive free downloads.

 

[Strydersroom]

One thing I do know is that in the 80s Millions upon Millions of us made mix tapes and gave them to friends. Was that stealing? What about mix CDs? It’s all about context. What about recording songs from the radio? Remember that? Of course all of this was personal use and friends gifts, I was not selling the mix cds.

 

[Geist]

One thing I do know is that in the 80s Millions upon Millions of us made mix tapes and gave them to friends. Was that stealing? What about mix CDs? It’s all about context. What about recording songs from the radio? Remember that? Of course all of this was personal use and friends gifts, I was not selling the mix cds.

Those songs on the radio were indeed paid for by the stations advertisers.

 

[Geist]

Expectations of sale have nothing to do with whether something can be stolen. I could make or possess an object merely to enjoy it myself and if someone took it that would be theft. The expectation of sales doesn’t even have anything to do with IP. In fact there are software licenses that allow you to use code so long as you don’t sell the resulting product.

Nothing was taken in this case. The ‘owner’ still has whatever it was that the person ‘stole’.

So if when I was in the military, as long as I didn’t TAKE a thumb drive with top secret info on it, but merely saw it’s files, remembered the data, and gave the info to a foreign government I’d be good to go?

 

[Listener]

This person didn’t steal anything. He watched a movie that he intended to pay for. It is not his fault that the bill didn’t come. It is probably a good idea to wait a month or so to see if the charge appears.

This stuff happens all of the time. I went to a medical clinic in a drugstore last October, and the charge was supposed to be $75. I didn’t pay a dime because they accept insurance. They were supposed to bill Medicare, and then Medicare is set up to beam the remainder of the bill off to my secondary insurance. I can see by looking at my Medicare claims that they never billed Medicare. I asked about it the other day when picking up a prescription there, and the guy behind the counter just shrugged his shoulders and said he didn’t have any idea what to do about that!

I am getting to the point where I’m convinced that it is just not my responsibility to try to fix every billing problem that I notice.