Stealing?

[Timothysis]

That would be the commandment against stealing. By travelling on a child’s fare when they are an adult and should be paying an adult fare, they are in effect stealing the difference in price between an adult ticket and a child’s ticket.

Stealing, or more properly “theft,” requires that something be taken from another unlawfully. I fail to see how the poster could be accused of theft when she has a ticket that she honestly and legally purchased. The fact that her age changed is inconsequential.

Like having a ticket that enables one to travel to a certain point and then deliberately travelling further than one is entitled - one would be stealing the difference between the fare for the actual distance travelled and the (lesser) fare for the (shorter) distance they are allowed to travel on that ticket.

The poster did not “deliberately” do anything dishonest but buy a ticket. Your example is flawed.

 

[LilyM]

Stealing, or more properly “theft,” requires that something be taken from another unlawfully. I fail to see how the poster could be accused of theft when she has a ticket that she honestly and legally purchased. The fact that her age changed is inconsequential.

What has been taken or stolen is not the ticket but the ride itself, or part of its value, as she did not pay the proper price appropriate to her adult status that she was legally and morally obligated to pay for that ride, but paid less. It is indeed unlawful to ride unless one has paid the proper price for that ride. An adult who is found riding public transport on a child’s ticket has indeed done something unlawful and will usually be fined if discovered.

If you read the terms and conditions on a child’s ticket it will usually define the age group for which the ticket is legally valid. If she is not of that age group, then the ticket ceases to be valid and legally she cannot use it (unless perhaps she arranges to pay the difference or something).

It’s like claiming to be under ten years old to get a cheaper movie ticket when one is in fact over ten. If one is over ten then one is legally and morally obligated to pay the proper price for over tens. If one dishonestly claims to be younger to avoid paying the proper price, then they have stolen.

The poster did not “deliberately” do anything dishonest but buy a ticket. Your example is flawed.

She knew it was no longer valid as she was older than the age group for which it was valid. She knew that she morally and legally ought to pay a higher price for her ride than she did. She chose not to do so. That was dishonest. The honest thing to do was ensure she paid adult price. It was also a deliberate choice. She was neither ignorant nor being forced in any way to do so.

 

[atheistgirl]

The fact that they are now older than when they purchased it is inconsequential.

Nope.

The fact they are older, now, and an adult, is precisely the issue.

An adult can not travel on a child’s ticket.

As others well advised, call the ticket office and see what they say.

Most likely, they’ll have to make up the difference to an adult fare.

Sarah x

 

[mountee]

The poster states that she bought the ticket properly. What exactly is she stealing if she uses it?

When she purchased the ticket she did buy it legally, continuing to use it when she is past the age limit is not, unless the company agrees.

 

[tafan]

G

The ticket was bought fair and square, so the system was not cheated.

Using a ticket that one has bought fair and square is certainly not unethical. In the future, the poster will have to pay the adult price. That makes everything even.

I suspect the wording on the ticket is quite clear: is is only to be used for a person under X years of age. When you buy it, you agree to those terms. If the wording is clear, then using it for an adult is certainly theft.

 

[constantconvert]

Assuming that the adult ticket costs more than the child’s ticket, use the child’s ticket, and offer the bus driver the difference in fare. If the adults fare is the same as the child’s fare, I don’t see a problem using it.

 

[quiet52]

OP, have you called the bus company yet? We cannot answer as to what the bus company’s policy is.

In my city, youths can purchase youth fare bus passes on a monthly basis or yearly basis.

“Youth” is defined as a person 6 through 17 years of age, subject to the presentation of a valid identification card establishing the age of the person. The term includes high school students, up to 19 years of age, with a valid high school identification card establishing the age of the students and the student’s current enrollment, but excludes college, university and vocational training students if over the age of 17.

So, since you presented your ID at the time of purchase, the seller obviously knew your age. I personally don’t know if you are expected to buy two different passes for the one time period (monthly or yearly). So – phone the bus company! Don’t bother a priest with this, please – he is no more familiar with the bus company policy than any of us. Only bring it up in Confession if you knowingly sin against the bus company.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

I purchased a child’s bus ticket for multiple uses when I was a child, but now having surpassed the age of a child is it alright for me to use the ticket up? In one way it could be stealing, because I’m traveling on a child’s ticket when I’m actually an adult. But on the other hand it would be a waste of money not to use it up. I’m pretty sure its fine to use it up, but I just wanted to make sure.

Hope that makes sense, thanks.

You paid for it so use it until it expires.

 

[Timothysis]

You paid for it so use it until it expires.

Bingo!

 

[LilyM]

You paid for it so use it until it expires.

Great - I’ll tell my nephew to run out and get a whole bunch of kiddy multi-ride passes the day before he turns too old - they don’t have an expiry date on them, so if he gets enough of em he’ll be set for cheap rides for life, right?

Dead wrong.

The small print says the pass is only valid for a particular age group and even then only if the user is able to produce proof of age to show that they are within that age group. In lawyer speak these are terms of the contract that he enters into when he buys a ticket or pass.

Conditions are prominently posed everywhere you buy the passes, so no-one can plead ignorance of the conditions. If he tries to ride when he’s too old without at least making up the difference in fares, heck even if he is the right age but doesn’t have proof of age on him when he rides, he is breaking both the contract and the law.

 

[Timothysis]

Great - I’ll tell my nephew to run out and get a whole bunch of kiddy multi-ride passes the day before he turns too old - they don’t have an expiry date on them, so if he gets enough of em he’ll be set for cheap rides for life, right?

Dead wrong.

It all comes down to intent. The OP didn’t buy the ticket with the intention of riding for less later; it is just one of those things. Not everything in life boils down to a moral/immoral perspective. It is the armchair theologians here who, armed with a section of the catechism, extrapolate the insignificant and mundane into conclusions of hellfire and damnation.

Perhaps you should lecture the poster who said that one shouldn’t jaywalk because if you are hit and killed by a car then you are going straight to hell because we are obligated to obey “just laws.” Yes, jaywalking, along with using a bus pass, can indeed be instances of totally separating oneself from God for eternity.

 

[LilyM]

It all comes down to intent. The OP didn’t buy the ticket with the intention of riding for less later; it is just one of those things. Not everything in life boils down to a moral/immoral perspective. It is the armchair theologians here who, armed with a section of the catechism, extrapolate the insignificant and mundane into conclusions of hellfire and damnation.

Perhaps you should lecture the poster who said that one shouldn’t jaywalk because if you are hit and killed by a car then you are going straight to hell because we are obligated to obey “just laws.” Yes, jaywalking, along with using a bus pass, can indeed be instances of totally separating oneself from God for eternity.

The intent of using a child’s ticket as an adult, assuming the fare is cheaper, is no less than to steal - to get that discounted fare that I am no longer entitled to. The buying is a separate act to the use.

Put it this way - I may borrow, with permission, my father’s watch intending to return it tomorrow, and forget to return it. If I find it in the bottom of my drawer in six months’ time, I am obliged to return it to him. I am not suddenly free to keep it, or sell it to some third party and keep the proceeds, or whatever. If I do any of these, it is morally wrong. The fact that the original act of borrowing was innocent does not make anything or everything I choose to do with the watch thereafter equally blameless.

Cheating on a fare may not be a huge theft, and therefore not mortal sin (‘separating oneself for God for all eternity’ as you put it). It is, however, illegal and a sin. It is an offense against God as a lie about one’s age (an offense against truth and against Him, who is Truth) and against justice (which demands that one pay the fare appropriate to one’s age, status as a student or social security recipient or whatever other circumstances are relevant).

And of course one shouldn’t jaywalk - because it is dangerous if for no other reason. One should obey just laws. Even Jesus paid His taxes - so should we.

It is not necessarily a mortal sin if one does not, but we are called to try to avoid all sin, to try to be perfect, not just big sins.

 

[Timothysis]

Even Jesus paid His taxes - so should we.

I’m sure that He qualified for the religious exemption.

It is not necessarily a mortal sin if one does not, but we are called to try to avoid all sin, to try to be perfect, not just big sins.

Called to be perfect is a very high calling; I wonder how many succeed?

Just for curiosity sake, do you take samples at the supermarket even when you have no intention of purchasing the product?

 

[LilyM]

I’m sure that He qualified for the religious exemption.

Read your Gospels. He paid.

Called to be perfect is a very high calling; I wonder how many succeed?

The highest. No athlete who doesn’t think they can at least potentially win gold makes it even to Olympic qualifying rounds let alone the finals. We achieve good things by setting high standards and striving to achieve them, not by saying it is all too hard and coasting.

Just for curiosity sake, do you take samples at the supermarket even when you have no intention of purchasing the product?

Samples that are being handed out by staff? Yes of course. A few grapes or strawberries from the fruit display? Not unless I’m thinking of buying. But then why would I try something that wasn’t at least potentially worth buying anyway?

Honesty is not always easy, for sure, but nothing worthwhile is.