Stem Cell Initiative

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Faith1960

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As many of you know, this subject is very heatedly being debated here in Missouri and the whole country is getting into the fray on various online message boards. I have plenty of information from my church and information I’ve obtained online but that’s apparently not good enough to sway people on the other side of the issue who say that the information I or others opposed to embyronic stem cell research is nothing more than “propaganda from the right wing” or “religious propaganda.” They want information coming from neutral sources that support our side before they’ll even consider the information to be credible.

Among the many issues being debated are that embryos will not be created for research and that only exisiting embryos coming from IVF will be used, and that the word “cloning” is a word being used to deceive when it clearly states that human cloning is and will continue to be prohibited.

Are there any secular, neutral sites out there that I can use to sway these people?
 
First of all the legislation is dishonest because the supposed ban on cloning is not accurate as the allowed procedure is cloning - it is the same method that was used to create “dolly.”

Second, there is no documented success with the research of embryonic stem cells. There has been much research but no results. The only results have come from adult stem cells and from umbilical cord associated stem cells. There is plenty of information on all this documented all over the internet via credible sources.
 
mosher said:
First of all the legislation is dishonest because the supposed ban on cloning is not accurate as the allowed procedure is cloning - it is the same method that was used to create “dolly.”

Second, there is no documented success with the research of embryonic stem cells. There has been much research but no results. The only results have come from adult stem cells and from umbilical cord associated stem cells. There is plenty of information on all this documented all over the internet via credible sources.
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I’ve looked and am having a hard time finding non Catholic, non pro-life sources. Can you link me up to a few?
 
Faith1960 said:
I’ve looked and am having a hard time finding non Catholic, non pro-life sources. Can you link me up to a few?
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Faith: Unfortunately I don’t have time to find them for you, but hopefully others will. I would just say that if they are not interested in religious sources they probably won’t see your side of the issue. The fact that an embryo is a human life with as much value as you or I can only be argued from a religious perspective. Human life is valuable primarily because it was created by God in His own image. Without this perspective, you could validly say that an embryo is useless to society. Just as you could claim an invalid or elderly person has outlived their usefulness and should be eliminated or recycled to save resources for the productive humans. Without God, we are all just organisms and no more important than any other mammal.

Sucks to be an atheist I guess…
 
Good people of the Catholic faith are also supporting Amendment
2 because they want to support scientists who are seeking cures for serious and deadly illnesses like Muscular dystrophy, Parkinson’s disease, and other terrifying illneses.
I believe these people support research that supports life.
This amendment supports research under strict guidelines that
can help people with serious illnesses.
Cloning is prohibited.
And it is very doubtful that there will be any black market for
egg donors.
These anti-amendment 2 ads are extremely misleading.
It would be unfortunate if such promising life saving research and treatment ends up being curtailed in Missouri
 
The reason to vote for amendment 2 is because of articles in the toronto Sun such as:

Top stem cell researcher lured back from U.S.
Oct. 25, 2006. 01:00 AM
MEGAN OGILVIE
HEALTH REPORTER

Gordon Keller, one of the world’s leading stem cell scientists, is coming home to Canada.

We should pass amendment 2 so we can keep top scientists in the U.S. so they can develop life saving treatments for our loved ones in the U.S.
 
What makes you think they can develop life saving cures with embryos? Has it ever happened? Don’t you think before they ask for my tax dollar they could produce one? Aren’t there any private investors wanting to make billions of dollars on this so called “cure”?
 
Wisdom34:

It sounds like you just copied all that right from the Amendment 2 talking points. Okay, here’s why not. Embryos are human babies. I don’t like killing human babies. How about you?
 
psteichen said:
Faith: Unfortunately I don’t have time to find them for you, but hopefully others will. I would just say that if they are not interested in religious sources they probably won’t see your side of the issue. The fact that an embryo is a human life with as much value as you or I can only be argued from a religious perspective. Human life is valuable primarily because it was created by God in His own image. Without this perspective, you could validly say that an embryo is useless to society. Just as you could claim an invalid or elderly person has outlived their usefulness and should be eliminated or recycled to save resources for the productive humans. Without God, we are all just organisms and no more important than any other mammal.

Sucks to be an atheist I guess…
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I agree with all you said except that this can only be argued from a religious perspective. Life begins somewhere. An embryo doesn’t walk, talk or contribute to the household finances but it’s stiill the beginning of life. I don’t think that one has to be religious in order to accept that basic fact, although, there’s no doubt that some athiests will argue that this is a religious mindset.
 
Faith1960 said:
I agree with all you said except that this can only be argued from a religious perspective. Life begins somewhere. An embryo doesn’t walk, talk or contribute to the household finances but it’s stiill the beginning of life. I don’t think that one has to be religious in order to accept that basic fact, although, there’s no doubt that some athiests will argue that this is a religious mindset.
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I was just looking at a embryology textbook today and the first lines of the first chapter define the scientific beginning of human life and it states clearly that it is at the moment of conception. This is just a scientific fact the issues about rights is another issue all together.

Try www.JFAnet.org they may have some good resources.
 
wisdom34 said:
This amendment supports research under strict guidelines that
can help people with serious illnesses.
Cloning is prohibited.
Click to expand...
No, actually the amendment says that cloning is prohibited but when one looks at the definition of cloning, they quickly learn that it does allow for this.
 
mosher said:
I was just looking at a embryology textbook today and the first lines of the first chapter define the scientific beginning of human life and it states clearly that it is at the moment of conception. This is just a scientific fact the issues about rights is another issue all together.

Try www.JFAnet.org they may have some good resources.
Click to expand...
I tried and can’t access the site. 😦
 
psteichen said:
Wisdom34:

It sounds like you just copied all that right from the Amendment 2 talking points. Okay, here’s why not. Embryos are human babies. I don’t like killing human babies. How about you?
Click to expand...
One of the arguments I’ve read for this amendment is that some are saying that using adult stem cells also involves cloning. Is that true?
 
wisdom34 said:
Good people of the Catholic faith are also supporting Amendment
2 because they want to support scientists who are seeking cures for serious and deadly illnesses like Muscular dystrophy, Parkinson’s disease, and other terrifying illneses.
I believe these people support research that supports life.
Click to expand...
Seeking cures is really not the issue. Both proponents and those opposed want cures. However, if any good Catholic understands what the Church teaches in the area of ethics, they MUST vote NO on amendment 2. It is NEVER permissible to do an intrinsically evil act (in this case the intentional destruction of human life) to accomplish any goal, no matter how good it is.
wisdom34 said:
This amendment supports research under strict guidelines that
can help people with serious illnesses.
Click to expand...
Would strict guidelines on how I can kill you to harvest your organs make this right?
wisdom34 said:
Cloning is prohibited.
Click to expand...
It is NOT. Reproductive cloning is prohibited. Therapeutic cloning is established as a constitutional right.
wisdom34 said:
And it is very doubtful that there will be any black market for
egg donors.
Click to expand...
No need for a black market. It will be perfectly legal for researchers to obtain “left over eggs” from fertility clinics. Eggs that were obtained after paying women thousands of dollars to undergo ovarian hyperstimulation.
 
Both Minnesota and Wisconsin state governments are into investing multi-millions of dollars in embryonic stem cell research. Aside from being immoral because of destroying human beings, it seems to me that the progress thus far tells us its like pouring money down a rat hole. Like the Iraqi war it is burning dollars that could have been or could be used to immediately relieve a lot of suffering all over the world. One example might be universal health insurance or helping third world people get out of the huge debt that is killing their economies.
 
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