Stem Cell Research...what if it was your 2 year old?

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Jesus_N_Cherie said:
That is precisely why God has given us laws, and there are moral absolutes. We are fallible. Emotions cause human beings to do some really crazy…and sometimes evil things. We cannot make laws using our emotions. Yes, my child could at any moment become deathly ill…and the only cure being something from an unethical scientific method. And truthfully, I would have to suffer greatly emotionally…agonizing about whether to put all of my beliefs on the line for just a longer time to keep my child alive.
That is human nature.
Therefore, laws have to reflect justice for all…and do so morally. That way people will not have to agonize so horrendously with their emotions. There should be no chance to do something immoral in a lawful way.
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Quote from Mother Teresa: “It is a poverty to decide that A CHILD MUST DIE so that you may live as you wish.”
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missal said:
Quote from Mother Teresa: “It is a poverty to decide that A CHILD MUST DIE so that you may live as you wish.”
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Thank God for Mother Theresa. I wish that the laws of the land reflected the laws of God. How many people go astray because they get confused due to their emotions?

I pray to God that we may always recognize His will, and follow it wholeheartedly…even if it means to suffer emotionally here on earth.
 
Jesus_N_Cherie said:
Thank God for Mother Theresa. I wish that the laws of the land reflected the laws of God. How many people go astray because they get confused due to their emotions?

I pray to God that we may always recognize His will, and follow it wholeheartedly…even if it means to suffer emotionally here on earth.
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Agreed. I would rather suffer here than later on.
 
edwest2 said:
Hopefully, those who come here to bait Catholics will realize we are on to you and your “what if” statements. I cannot speak for the actions of any individual scientist. I cannot speak for the actions of any individual parent. Sometimes, living for the Truth involves a sacrifice. It means standing up for the Truth, not “what ifs.”

If we desperately cling to our own lives and think only of ourselves, we will be cut off from God. Those human embryos, though lacking fingers and toes, are you and me. That’s right. We were all there, and fully uniquely human at that stage.

So reconsider your motives when posing these questions. Do not come here to create fear or anxiety. Each one of us who has a conscience and ears to hear, need to follow the Truth.

Peace,
Ed
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They are not just lacking fingers and toes. As i understand it, they are 8 cells. All of which are uniformly the same.
 
pnewton said:
We should never use such methods to begin with. What the OP asks, the topic of the thread, is about using morally acceptable techniques (adult stem cells) that were developed using research on embryonic stem cells. I think it is an excellent question. As long as the embryonic stem cell harvesting was not being done, I admit that I would use adult stem cell therapy if it would save my 2 year old.
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My concern is that with Obama’s order the thrust of research will be away from adult stem cell research to the more celebrated embryonic stem cell research.
 
Valke2 said:
They are not just lacking fingers and toes. As i understand it, they are 8 cells. All of which are uniformly the same.
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Just as evidently they form a human body and one is the process of tremendously fast growth.
 
RobbyS said:
Just as evidently they form a human body and one is the process of tremendously fast growth.
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Just to add to your observation, “It (the fertilized ovum) would never be made human if it were not human already.” Pope Paul VI
 
Jesus_N_Cherie said:
There should be no chance to do something immoral in a lawful way.
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I agree, but I think stem cell reesrach has the same moral greyness and difficulties as snowflake babies. Currently embryos are not created for stem cell research (that would be wrong), but embryos that were unused in IVF would otherwise simply be flushed down the sink are being used. As with snowflake babies, the clock cannot be turned back - so can some good come out of a bad situation? On the one hand the answer is “yes” (for both snowflake babies and for stem cell reserach). On the other hand the answer is “no” because there is a real danger that use of the embryos legitimises the continued creation of surplus embyros.

As with many things science is racing ahead of ethics - the mere question of when does a stem cell line “die” is very difficult (the stem cell line is likely to derive from a single cell of the embryo with the rest rapidly dying). If I take one cell from an embryo that was about to be destroyed am I continuing the person’s life in a very artifical way? If so I would agree it is an abuse of a person’s dignity. In an ideal world we would prevent science from racing ahead of ethics, but that is not likely to happen.

One may of course argue that when in doubt take the conservative approach. And I don’t have a problem with that. But I think presenting complex ethical situations as black and white oversimplfies the situation and won’t win over people who are on the fence on these issues.
 
Jesus_N_Cherie said:
The adult stem cell research and therapy does not come about by anyone’s murder. Therein lies the difference.
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Re-read the OP. The question is about an adult stem cell theray that had assistance from embryonic stem cell research.
  1. If they first found a cure using ESC but then were able to copy it using adult stem cells…would you use it then?
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This is what makes the question a little more complex, especially in light of how much researchers learn from others in their field.

In regards to which came first.
How in the world can that question be answered?
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I do not know. This was not a rhetorical question. I was wondering of how intertwined the research is or which came first.
 
Michael96 said:
I think the moral issues are so difficult if the research has already been done. Almost every drug coming onto the market now will have had some tests done using HEK-293 cells (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_cell) which are Human Embryonic Kidney cells derived from an aborted foetus. This cell line has been going nearly 40 years and is used in almost every molecular biology lab on the planet (and almost every molecular biologist, Catholic or not, uses HEK cells at some point - they are possibly the most widely used of any cell type). Nevertheless - it originated from a human foetus (it’s not a stem cell line, so cannot be used for that reserach). Do we therefore reject new drugs coming onto the market. Most of us don’t.
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Finally someone who gets the questions I have been asking. Almost everything we do in life has some connection with evil as part of our lot with humanity. If one has received any medical treatment ever, then one is connected at some point to research that was immoral.
 
For me, I will stand by the fact that I would use an adult stem therapy, even if the research came in part from embryonic stem cells. If nothing else, it would be an economic vote, as it were to go away from embryonic stem cells to adult stem cell therapy. I do not see this as being sinful in the eyes of the teaching of the Church.
 
pnewton said:
Finally someone who gets the questions I have been asking. Almost everything we do in life has some connection with evil as part of our lot with humanity. If one has received any medical treatment ever, then one is connected at some point to research that was immoral.
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Well, Adam & Eve disobeyed and, we are connected to this original sin. Does that mean
we should just shrug our shoulders and say, “We don’t need moral laws or ethic laws, we are what we are” ???huh?🤷
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pnewton said:
Finally someone who gets the questions I have been asking. Almost everything we do in life has some connection with evil as part of our lot with humanity. If one has received any medical treatment ever, then one is connected at some point to research that was immoral.
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Nope. That is a sweeping generalization and untrue. The man who discovered X-rays did nothing immoral. He simply realized one day that the X-rays coming from a tube affected some film far from the source. The person who discovered penicillin did nothing immoral.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Nope. That is a sweeping generalization and untrue. The man who discovered X-rays did nothing immoral. He simply realized one day that the X-rays coming from a tube affected some film far from the source. The person who discovered penicillin did nothing immoral.

Peace,
Ed
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It was a bit hyperbolic, but there are things that we licitely use today that are the result of immoral means. Many technologies were developed out of wartime research (and, yes, some wars are just, but the research happens during both just and unjust wars). Here’s an article on the dilemma of using ‘tainted’ research from WWII as an example.

history1900s.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=history1900s&cdn=education&tm=11&gps=193_714_1020_614&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.jlaw.com/Articles/NaziMedEx.html
 
That’s stretching things a bit. Both World Wars were just and moral—are you weighing in on the side of ‘pragmatism?’
 
edwest2 said:
Nope. That is a sweeping generalization and untrue. ,. The person who discovered penicillin did nothing immoral.
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Nothing immoral? Ever, thus joining Jesus and Mary in perfect? 😃

Just kidding.

I know there are exceptions and things discovered outside science. Much of our basic anatomy was learned using bodies that were robbed from graves. Much of our testing, as was said involves embryos. When a doctor goes through his education process, he learns from the moral and immoral alike. Is his knowledge tainted? If not, then why would the use of adult stem cells be tainted because of knowledge gained in a similar fashion.
 
chris_molter said:
It was a bit hyperbolic, but there are things that we licitely use today that are the result of immoral means. Many technologies were developed out of wartime research (and, yes, some wars are just, but the research happens during both just and unjust wars). Here’s an article on the dilemma of using ‘tainted’ research from WWII as an example.

history1900s.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=history1900s&cdn=education&tm=11&gps=193_714_1020_614&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.jlaw.com/Articles/NaziMedEx.html
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That’s an amazing article you shared. Thank you so much.
 
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