Stem Cell Research...what if it was your 2 year old?

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My 2 ½ year old son has type 1 diabetes, and in light of Obama lifting the bans on embryonic stem cell research, I have a few moral questions…
  1. If your child had an incurable disease and a cure could be found through embryonic stem cell research, would you use that cure on your child?
  2. If the organization that is in the forefront with adult stem cell research and has come so close to a cure will now be doing research with the ESC (embryonic stem cell) would you still support this org (please note: they are just as likely to find a cure with the adult stem cells verses the ESC) or would you stop supporting them all together?
  3. If they first found a cure using ESC but then were able to copy it using adult stem cells…would you use it then?
Thanks and I am interested in what everyone thinks on this topic.
 
My 2 ½ year old son has type 1 diabetes, and in light of Obama lifting the bans on embryonic stem cell research, I have a few moral questions…
  1. If your child had an incurable disease and a cure could be found through embryonic stem cell research, would you use that cure on your child?
  2. If the organization that is in the forefront with adult stem cell research and has come so close to a cure will now be doing research with the ESC (embryonic stem cell) would you still support this org (please note: they are just as likely to find a cure with the adult stem cells verses the ESC) or would you stop supporting them all together?
  3. If they first found a cure using ESC but then were able to copy it using adult stem cells…would you use it then?
Thanks and I am interested in what everyone thinks on this topic.
British and Canadian scientists recently announced a further breakthrough in adult stem cell research and they said this would do away with the need to use embryonic stem cells.
 
Do you believe the unborn are real humans or don’t you? They key to proper discernment is to look beyond the emotional pulls and make crucial decisions based on principles, not feelings.

If you believe the unborn are truly human then your questions are no different than these:
  1. If your 2 year old needed a heart transplant to survive, the legitimate waiting list was hopelessly long and you knew that the 2 year old down the street was compatible, would you kidnap and kill him to get the heart for your kid? How about if the kid was from a hopelessly poor family with an absent father and neglectful mother - he won’t amount to anything anyways, right? (This blunt comparison presumes that you are referring to a hypothetical treatment that directly uses embryonic stem cells.)
  2. If you knew a surgeon that would do transplants like the one above with black market sourced hearts and he was known to be the best surgeon around, would you still use him if the heart for YOUR child came through legitimate sources? Arguably you could do so morally, but it’s awfully close to the edge of the precipice, maybe over. Pray hard.
  3. This one is utterly different. Knowledge is knowledge and the source it comes from is not tied to morality. If a theraputic procedure is developed that uses adult stem cells and is performed by people without blood on their hands, I’d see no problem having that treatment applied to my child.
I’m not sure if this is a real example or hypothetical, but I hope I haven’t been to blunt to be helpful.
 
1 & 3. If a cure is found I would use it. I may not agree with the means by which it was obtained but it would be immoral not to use it if it existed. Now if it required further death of children, such as they had to directly use the embryonic stem cells on my child than no. I would not save my child by causing death to someone else. But if it were a case where a cure, such as medication were developed, because of children that had already been killed, as much as I opposed it and fought against it, I’d use the medication.
  1. I would not support any company using embryonic stem cells, no matter what.
 
My 2 ½ year old son has type 1 diabetes, and in light of Obama lifting the bans on embryonic stem cell research, I have a few moral questions…
  1. If your child had an incurable disease and a cure could be found through embryonic stem cell research, would you use that cure on your child?
  2. If the organization that is in the forefront with adult stem cell research and has come so close to a cure will now be doing research with the ESC (embryonic stem cell) would you still support this org (please note: they are just as likely to find a cure with the adult stem cells verses the ESC) or would you stop supporting them all together?
  3. If they first found a cure using ESC but then were able to copy it using adult stem cells…would you use it then?
Thanks and I am interested in what everyone thinks on this topic.
Short and sweet:

No, nope and never.

It is never morally right to create life just to destroy it for ‘a cure’ for some imagined or real illness.

Embyonic stem cell research is as bad as abortion.
 
My 2 ½ year old son has type 1 diabetes, and in light of Obama lifting the bans on embryonic stem cell research, I have a few moral questions…
  1. If your child had an incurable disease and a cure could be found through embryonic stem cell research, would you use that cure on your child? He does and I would not!
  2. If the organization that is in the forefront with adult stem cell research and has come so close to a cure will now be doing research with the ESC (embryonic stem cell) would you still support this org (please note: they are just as likely to find a cure with the adult stem cells verses the ESC) or would you stop supporting them all together? I would not support anyone who does ESC, ever no matter what.
  3. If they first found a cure using ESC but then were able to copy it using adult stem cells…would you use it then? No!
Thanks and I am interested in what everyone thinks on this topic.
 
My wife and I had 4 children. One we buried as a newborn. Not even for him would I have said yes, because the end never justifies the means.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
My 2 ½ year old son has type 1 diabetes, and in light of Obama lifting the bans on embryonic stem cell research, I have a few moral questions…
  1. If your child had an incurable disease and a cure could be found through embryonic stem cell research, would you use that cure on your child?
  2. If the organization that is in the forefront with adult stem cell research and has come so close to a cure will now be doing research with the ESC (embryonic stem cell) would you still support this org (please note: they are just as likely to find a cure with the adult stem cells verses the ESC) or would you stop supporting them all together?
  3. If they first found a cure using ESC but then were able to copy it using adult stem cells…would you use it then?
Thanks and I am interested in what everyone thinks on this topic.
Of course I find many of his arguments about religion in general a bit simplistic his statement about stem cell research is bang on. Please forgive the long quote.

*There are sources of irrationality other than religious faith, of course, but none of them are celebrated for their role in shaping public policy. Supreme Court justices are not in the habit of praising our nation or its reliance upon astrology, or for its wealth of UFO sightings, or for exemplifying the various reasoning biases that psychologists have found to be more or less endemic to our species. Only mainstream religious dogmatism receives the unqualified support of government. And yet, religious faith obscures uncertainty where uncertainty manifestly exists, allowing the unknown, the implausible, and the patently false to achieve primacy over facts.
Consider the present debate over research on human embryonic stem cells. The problem with this research, from the religious point of view is simple: it entails the destruction of human embryos. The embryos in question will have been cultures in vitro (not removed from a woman’s body) and permitted to grow for three to five days. AT this stage of development, an embryo is called a blastocyst and consists of about 150 cells arranged in a microscopic sphere. Interior to the blastocyst is a small group of about 30 embryonic stem cells. These cells have two properties that make them of such abiding interest to scientists: as stem cells, they can remain in an unspecialized state, reproducing themselves through cell division for long periods of time (a population of such cells living in culture is known as a cell line); stem cells are also pluripotent, which means they have the potential to become any specialized cell in the human body – neurons of the brain and spinal chord, insulin-producing cells of the pancreas, muscle cells of the heart, and so forth.*
 
Of course I find many of his arguments about religion in general a bit simplistic his statement about stem cell research is bang on. Please forgive the long quote.

*There are sources of irrationality other than religious faith, of course, but none of them are celebrated for their role in shaping public policy. Supreme Court justices are not in the habit of praising our nation or its reliance upon astrology, or for its wealth of UFO sightings, or for exemplifying the various reasoning biases that psychologists have found to be more or less endemic to our species. Only mainstream religious dogmatism receives the unqualified support of government. And yet, religious faith obscures uncertainty where uncertainty manifestly exists, allowing the unknown, the implausible, and the patently false to achieve primacy over facts.
Code:
        Consider the present debate over research on human embryonic stem cells.  The problem with this research, from the religious point of view is simple:  it entails the destruction of human embryos.  The embryos in question will have been cultures in vitro (not removed from a woman’s body) and permitted to grow for three to five days.  AT this stage of development, an embryo is called a blastocyst and consists of about 150 cells arranged in a microscopic sphere.  Interior to the blastocyst is a small group of about 30 embryonic stem cells.  These cells have two properties that make them of such abiding interest to scientists:  as stem cells, they can remain in an unspecialized state, reproducing themselves through cell division for long periods of time (a population of such cells living in culture is known as a cell line); stem cells are also pluripotent, which means they have the potential to become any specialized cell in the human body – neurons of the brain and spinal chord, insulin-producing cells of the pancreas, muscle cells of the heart, and so forth.*
*Here is what we know. We know that much can be learned from research on embryonic stem cells. In particular, such research nay give us further insight into the processes of cell division and cell differentiation. This would almost certainly shed new light on those medical conditions, like cancer and birth defects, that seem to be merely a matter of processes gone awry. We also know that research on embryonic cells requires the destruction of human embryos at the 150-cell stage. There is not the slightest reason to believe, however, that such embryos have the capacity to sense pain, to suffer, or to experience the loss of life in any way at all. What is indisputable is that there are millions of human beings who do have these capacities, and who currently suffer from traumatic injuries to the brain and spinal chord. Millions more suffer from Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s diseases. Millions more suffer from stroke and heart disease, from burns, from diabetes, from rheumatoid arthritis, from Purkinje cell degeneration, from Duchenne muscular dystrophy, and from vision and hearing loss. We know that embryonic stem cells promise to be a renewable source of tissues and organs that might alleviate such suffering in the not to distant future.
Code:
        Enter faith:  we now find ourselves living in a world in which college-educated politicians hurl impediments in the way of such research because they are concerned about the fate of  single cells.  Their concern is not merely that a collection of 150 cells may suffer its destruction.  Rather, they believe that even a human zygote (a fertilized egg) should be accorded all the protections of a fully developed human being.  Such a cell, after al, has the potential to become a full developed human being..  But given our recent advances in the biology of cloning, as much can be said of almost every cell in the human body.  By the measure of a cell’s potential whenever the president scratches his nose he is now engaged in a diabolical culling of souls.

        Out of deference to some rather poorly specified tenets of Christine doctrine (after all, nothing in the Bible suggests that killing human embryos, or even human fetuses, is the equivalent of killing a human being), the U.S. House of Representatives voted effectively to ban embryonic stem-cell research on February 27, 2003.

        No rational approach to ethics would have led us to such an impasse.  Our present policy on human stem cells has been shaped by beliefs that are divorced from every reasonable intuition we might form about the possible experience of living systems.  In neurological terms, we surely visit more suffering upon this earth by killing a fly than by killing a human blastocyst, to say nothing of a human zygote (flies, after all, have 100,000 cells in their brains alone).  Of course, the point at which we fully acquire our humanity, and or capacity to suffer, remains an open question.  But anyone who would dogmatically insist that these traits must arise coincident with the moment of conception has nothing to contribute, apart from his ignorance, to this debate.  Those opposed to therapeutic stem-cell research on religious grounds constitute the biological and ethical
Equivalent of a flat-earth society. Our discourse on the subject should reflect this. In this area of public policy alone, the accommodations that we have made to faith will do nothing but enshrine a perfect immensity of human suffering for decades to come.*

sam harris
Source: The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason, Page: 165…6
 
  • We know that embryonic stem cells promise to be a renewable source of tissues and organs that might alleviate such suffering in the not to distant future./I]
sam harris
Source: The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason, Page: 165…6*

So, let me get this straight: you advocate us becoming a nation of flesh-eating zombies living off the tissues and organs of the unborn?

As to the original questions: No, No, No.
 
So, let me get this straight: you advocate us becoming a nation of flesh-eating zombies living off the tissues and organs of the unborn?

As to the original questions: No, No, No.
Using a blastocyte that will be discarded because it is too old to be implanted is hardly equivalent to being a nation of flesh eating zombies.
 
Using a blastocyte that will be discarded because it is too old to be implanted is hardly equivalent to being a nation of flesh eating zombies.
If you kill human life in order to live, then you are the same as a cannibalistic zombie. Though you don’t physically eat human life you sacrifice human life in order for yourself to sustain your own life. It is just cleaner and less bloody method then eating the flesh directly. But, is any less evil? If we do it in the name of science?

In the Old Testament it talks of the pagans sacrificing their children to pagan gods.

The earliest reference to child sacrifice in the Bible is found in Leviticus where the practice is address by Moses in connection with Molech: Do not give any of your **children to he passed through (the fire) to Molech for you must not profane the name of your God. 1 am the Lord.(Lev. 18:21; see also 20:1-5)

In I Kings 11:7, Molech is identified as “the detestable god of the Ammonites” and recent archeological evidence in the former territory of the Ammonites from the period of the Conquest supports biblical testimony that child sacrifice was practiced in Jordan roughly contemporarily with Moses." The Hebrew word *Molech is *the same Semitic root as the Punic word **mulk **which was found inscribed on several burial monuments at Carthage giving linguistic evidence for the continuity between the practice of child sacrifice in Canaan and at Carthage. But whereas at Carthage the word refers to the sacrificial offerings including human sacrifice, in Leviticus it refers to the god who demands child sacrifice.

In the modern context we are willing to sacrifice human life to the modern god we call science for favor of others in community; this is what the pagans were doing when they sacrificed children to Molech for favor for the rest of the community. Today it appears that Molech just changed his name, today we call him Science.

Once the ‘old’ blastocyte is used up, will we start “farming” it for more research?

Science can be used for great good, but if we sacrifice human life for experimentation then we are using it for evil. The means does not justify the ends, and in this case the ends seems to in doubt.
 
So, let me get this straight: you advocate us becoming a nation of flesh-eating zombies living off the tissues and organs of the unborn?

As to the original questions: No, No, No.
I’m with you—and so is the Church.

“The root of all evil is a hatred of the Truth.”

:signofcross:
 
Using a blastocyte that will be discarded because it is too old to be implanted is hardly equivalent to being a nation of flesh eating zombies.
Calling the unborn child a blastocyte helps you make that disconnect from the fact that it’s a human person, doesn’t it? 🤷

It’s a lot easier to murder when we have a “good reason” and we can dehumanize the victims. It’s worked since the dawn of mankind. It still works today. The more we change, the more we stay the same it seems.
 
Using a blastocyte that will be discarded because it is too old to be implanted is hardly equivalent to being a nation of flesh eating zombies.
I agree that the equivalent is a bit over the top, but where does the line get drawn on destroying embryonic life? How is destroying embryonic life that different than paying pregnant teenagers to get a partial late term abortion and harvesting the organs of the partially delivered baby i.e. does waiting 9 months make it any less a crime of murder?
 
I agree that the equivalent is a bit over the top, but where does the line get drawn on destroying embryonic life? How is destroying embryonic life that different than paying pregnant teenagers to get a partial late term abortion and harvesting the organs of the partially delivered baby i.e. does waiting 9 months make it any less a crime of murder?
Agreed.
The Chinese reportedly use prisoners for spare body-parts. They’re convicted prisoners & are headed for execution anyway, so why not? Same rationale.
When I checked the American Diabetes site a few years ago they were gung-ho re. stem cell research and “therapeutic” cloning. Now I only see stem cell research & a disclaimer re. cloning but I don’t buy it.
 
First of all, Obama did not lift a ban on embryonic stem cell research. There has never been such a ban. He liften Bill Clinton’s (yes, you read that right) ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. Research has been ongoing with all kinds of stem cells, even with the original ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cells.

Now Congress can budget some additional billions of imaginary dollars toward private biotech firms trying to cash in a particular sort of research.

Would I want my child to receive some sort of treatment? Not if it meant getting cannibalized parts from a murdered child. If research led to some way to cure his disease without using said parts, probably.
 
What if a building were on fire. Indside were 100 frozen embryos and a group of kids. You cannot save all of them. Which gets your top priority and why?

I ask because if you are going to give equal weight to a blastocyst and a 5 year old, then you really should have no preference on the above choice.

Someone has suggested that such hypothecial situations depend on an emotional instead of a logical response and suggested that chosing the 5 year old was simply an emotional choice, not a logical one. I think the reverse is true. The logical thing to do would be, IMO, to save the 5 year old, the one with feelings, sentiency, loved ones, etc. - for what I think are obvious reasons. And that is why the “anyone who would kill an embryo would also kill a 5 year old for organs” argument falls flat with folks who don’t equate an embryo with a born person. We see the clear dividing line. We don’t see them as “equal” beings, so, no, we would not advocate harvesting organs or anything else from born folks of any age.
 
Honestly,

No

No

Yes

Let us draw a parallel to a child that needed a new heart. I would not approve of taking the hearts from other children or supporting such a thing. However, I would be less than honest If I had a dying child that I would not save his life if I could, even if another child had already died that I could not bring to life, the second part being the key.
 
My 2 ½ year old son has type 1 diabetes, and in light of Obama lifting the bans on embryonic stem cell research, I have a few moral questions…
  1. If your child had an incurable disease and a cure could be found through embryonic stem cell research, would you use that cure on your child?
  2. If the organization that is in the forefront with adult stem cell research and has come so close to a cure will now be doing research with the ESC (embryonic stem cell) would you still support this org (please note: they are just as likely to find a cure with the adult stem cells verses the ESC) or would you stop supporting them all together?
  3. If they first found a cure using ESC but then were able to copy it using adult stem cells…would you use it then?
Thanks and I am interested in what everyone thinks on this topic.
I could never kill a baby to save my own child, I couldn’t pay a doctor to do the killing for me, either. That would be murder. A clear crime against humanity.

Our own selfish tendencies should never over ride our desire to live for God and his plan.
 
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