Stem-Cell Research

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vincent10395

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It is said that embryonic stem-cell research could offer therapeutic breakthroughs for every disease or injury process that human beings suffer. What often worries Christians is this entails the destruction of a three day old human embryo. Why is this such a concern? A human embryo has a collection of 150 cells. The brain of a fly has 100,000 cells for the sake of comparison. However, this embryo has neither a brain or neurons so to think it would feel pain is absurd. Sure, this embryo has the potential to become a human being, yet, with recent advances in genetic engineering every cell in your body hold this same potential. Scratch your nose and you’ve just created a genocide of potential humans. Why then do Christians intend on holding back these scientific advances that could alleviate the pain of countless humans?
-Paraphrase of Sam Harris
 
To end one life, even to save billions, is immoral. We do not have the power or right to determine who lives and who dies. A fetus is not a potential human. It is fully human at the moment of conception.
 
vincent10395 said:
It is said that embryonic stem-cell research could offer therapeutic breakthroughs for every disease or injury process that human beings suffer.
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That is incorrect.

In reality, ADULT stem-cell research has been very productive, and has resulted in many cures. And there is no death of the donor involved.

So why all the hype about embryonic stem cells instead of adult stem cells? The answer is another question. Who in the universe wants the most for there to be fewer humans, be it via contraception, or abortion, or removing CO2 from the atmosphere?
 
vincent10395 said:
It is said that embryonic stem-cell research could offer therapeutic breakthroughs for every disease or injury process that human beings suffer.
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It’s been said for nearly 20 years yet no actual cures have been found. Adult and cord blood stem cells OTOH have produced actual results.
vincent10395 said:
Why is this such a concern?
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A human person exists from conception to natural death. The size of the person is irrelevant. They are a person with a soul, all the same.
vincent10395 said:
Sure, this embryo has the potential to become a human being
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The embryo IS a human being. We may not do evil, even in the pursuit of good.
vincent10395 said:
with recent advances in genetic engineering every cell in your body hold this same potential
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No, it doesn’t. Nor would cloning technology be moral.
vincent10395 said:
Scratch your nose and you’ve just created a genocide of potential humans.
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No, you haven’t.

A cell from your body and a human embryo are not the same thing.
vincent10395 said:
Why then do Christians intend on holding back these scientific advances that could alleviate the pain of countless humans?
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We may not do evil in pursuit of good.

We may certainly pursue cures and treatments through adult and cord blood stem cells.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
To end one life, even to save billions, is immoral. We do not have the power or right to determine who lives and who dies. A fetus is not a potential human. It is fully human at the moment of conception.
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This first sentence find a bit troubling. Don’t you believe in choosing the lesser of two evils? Sure, in a perfect world its not the ideal but seems a bit idealistic to think we would sacrifice “billions” when we had the option to save them. Wouldn’t that be indirectly killing them? As to the second point, the Catholic Church has made their stance pretty clear on, lets say, capital punishment. Isn’t that using power to determine who lives and who dies? And to the third part, a person is declared dead when brains waves aren’t detected anymore, the earliest brain waves in a fetus are detected are about 20 weeks. Don’t you think to be philosophically consistent we should say thats when life begins, perhaps? Thanks for the great discussion, I hope i’m not bouncing around too much.
 
vincent10395 said:
This first sentence find a bit troubling. Don’t you believe in choosing the lesser of two evils? Sure, in a perfect world its not the ideal but seems a bit idealistic to think we would sacrifice “billions” when we had the option to save them. Wouldn’t that be indirectly killing them?
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We cannot sin to bring about good.
vincent10395 said:
As to the second point, the Catholic Church has made their stance pretty clear on, lets say, capital punishment. Isn’t that using power to determine who lives and who dies?
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Sorry, let me clarify: We cannot have power over the lives of the innocent.
vincent10395 said:
And to the third part, a person is declared dead when brains waves aren’t detected anymore, the earliest brain waves in a fetus are detected are about 20 weeks. Don’t you think to be philosophically consistent we should say thats when life begins, perhaps?
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That’s the medical definition, not the theological one
 
ricmat said:
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vincent10395:
It is said that embryonic stem-cell research could offer therapeutic breakthroughs for every disease or injury process that human beings suffer.
Click to expand...
That is incorrect.

In reality, ADULT stem-cell research has been very productive, and has resulted in many cures. And there is no death of the donor involved.

So why all the hype about embryonic stem cells instead of adult stem cells? The answer is another question. Who in the universe wants the most for there to be fewer humans, be it via contraception, or abortion, or removing CO2 from the atmosphere?
Click to expand...
I’m all for Adult stem-call research as well! However, it does have limitations. Adult stem-cells cannot produce as many differentiated cell types as a embryonic cell can. Embryonic can literally become all types of cell because they are pluripotent. And to quote from stemcell.gov ," Embryonic stem cells can be grown relatively easily in culture. Adult stem cells are rare in mature tissues, so isolating these cells from an adult tissue is challenging, and methods to expand their numbers in have not yet been worked out. This is an important distinction, as large numbers of cells are needed for stem cell replacement therapies."
Thanks for the discussion!
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
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vincent10395:
This first sentence find a bit troubling. Don’t you believe in choosing the lesser of two evils? Sure, in a perfect world its not the ideal but seems a bit idealistic to think we would sacrifice “billions” when we had the option to save them. Wouldn’t that be indirectly killing them?
Click to expand...
We cannot sin to bring about good.
I don’t see how that can be a pro-life stance. I mean, billions of souls over one. Wouldn’t God understand that?
vincent10395 said:
As to the second point, the Catholic Church has made their stance pretty clear on, lets say, capital punishment. Isn’t that using power to determine who lives and who dies?
Click to expand...
Sorry, let me clarify: We cannot have power over the lives of the innocent.
Okay, thank you for the clarification!
vincent10395 said:
And to the third part, a person is declared dead when brains waves aren’t detected anymore, the earliest brain waves in a fetus are detected are about 20 weeks. Don’t you think to be philosophically consistent we should say thats when life begins, perhaps?
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That’s the medical definition, not the theological one
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So, theology and science can be opposed? I thought everything science revealed is in accord with religion?
 
Science doesn’t say life is defined by brain waves. It says human life begins at conception. Society says that life is defined by brain waves.
 
Removing CO2 from the atmosphere isn’t harmful (except if you do it totally, in which case plants would die) and it isn’t a sin. Please stop associating ecologism with progressism.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
Science doesn’t say life is defined by brain waves. It says human life begins at conception. Society says that life is defined by brain waves.
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Sorry, you said it was the medical definition, and I consider medicine a sect of science. I would think society as a whole doesn’t care so long as its in the womb its fair game, but many people don’t adhere to late term abortions. I think its reasonable to be opposed to abortion once the fetus can endure pain, brain waves are detected, or even when a heartbeat is heard in two weeks. But saying a three day old embryo is fully human is quite rocky.
 
The Church is the moral authority here. Science cannot put up any compelling argument against the humanity of the fetus, either.
 
Wouldn’t you agree though that there has to be a scientific argument before a moral one? Otherwise we don’t find out the truth and the morality could be right or wrong on the subject.
 
Well, conception creates a cell with 46 chromosomes, a unique cell with entirely human dna. It’s biologically human.
 
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