Stem Cells And Husband Scientist

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psychologist101

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My husband and I have been married for about 2 years, and got married right at the end of his PHD in neuroscience. He got a job with GlaxoSmithKlein as a research associate, and after a year, got a huge promition and pay raise. We moved into nothing short of a dream house, got rid of the horrific cars we had, and were living so well.

I thought that it was just the stress of defending his PHD that had taken a toll on his faith temporarily, him missing church alot, but i never would have guessed that his “big promotion” entailed helping CREATE embryonic stem cell lines for his company. The new house, cars, food, bills, EVERYTHING to me is blood money made from the killing of innocent embyos for human gain. I have tried and tried to get him to leave this job, but he refuses because it is so much money.

how did i miss something like this about him? how could i have known that he would go so completely wrong? how could i know he would participate in this? how do i get him to stop?

more importantly, how do i not be involved in ANY part with the killing of these tiny human beings? i do not make near enough money as a counselor for disabled children to pay bills or even pay for much food. how do i live and eat in a house that to me is built on the most grave of sins? i do not even want to touch him because i know everyday he is creating and harvesting embyos for murder. how do you continue a marriage where a spouse has sold their faith when they were “supposed” to be just developing drugs to help parkinsons patients? do i have to continue to live with this man and be supported by blood money? please give some guidance and advice.

betrayed and confused,

Michelle
 
I feel for you, what to do, but if you feel strongly about it which you must then it is time to go.

I am a male and if my wife was involved in such a thing and refused to stop etc, I can tell you now that it would all be over and I would leave.

hey, he has an option, you or the business, make him decide, if he chooses the business then be thankful that God has spared you a lifetime with such a person, if he chooses you then be thankful that God has worked favourable outcome to the situation.

Let us not allow the allowance of modern society and its relativism prevent us from knowing true evil.

When our emotions become involved balck and white gets easily greyed so as to make us make bad decisions.

If a friend or family member came to you and asked your advice on the exact same situation, what would your answer be to them, once you do that it becomes clear what yo should do.
 
You may have a reason to seek annulment.

This is a very serious part of your spouse that apparently wasn’t shared with you before you were married. Someone who kills babies for a living clearly doesn’t have a good understanding of being open to life, a requirement for a valid marriage. Given that this job came up right after you were married and has continued for the duration, despite your pleas for him to stop, I think this would all be taken very seriously be a tribunal.

Please go speak to your parish priest. I’m so sorry your life with this man is not what you anticipated.
 
Does he “create” the stem cell lines or does he work with existing stem cells to grow the line? He might not be directly involved in murder.
 
Here’s a good example of the love of money being the root of evil. If he won’t quit his job or ask for a transfer to a different sector in his company the least you can do is donate some of that money to pro-life organizations.
 
It’s a tough choice. Money is great, and that’s the prevailing opinion of American society today. However, all too often that money comes at grave cost. And, like the thirty pieces of silver, it should not be put in the Temple fund because it is blood money. In using money you know to be ill-gotten (best term I can come up with, sorry, I mean blood money), you tacitly acknowledge the sin and use it to your advantage.

I admire you for being able to see past modern materialism to the heart of the matter. Embryos are people too! Money which is taken for their destruction, even in the name of science, is like money paid to a hitman. I’m sorry to phrase it this way, but it’s about accurate, I think. You cannot in good conscience use it.

I don’t know what to do. Maybe if you found another job on your own - one that pays well enough to support yourself - you could work a deal out. If your husband decides to continue sacrificing morality on the altar of money, he is not a fit soulmate.

Best of luck. :gopray:
 
now i may get blasted for my reply, but the science behind this i know.

think of a racing car, you have the driver, the body of the car, and the engine as 3 simple parts. now lets say you get the driver and the body together, but fail to provide the engine. technically, this is not a racing car.

the same, scientifically, holds true for embryos. you have a sperm +egg+ MATERNAL HORMONES. you can add a sperm and egg together all you want, but until maternal hormones start DRIVING and DIRECTING the cell division, all you really end up with is a spherical mass of cells. even though the embryo may have 46 chromosomes, parts of its DNA are so tightly wound that they cannot be accessed to make things. maternal hormones can help unwind this DNA, and start the development process. i theorectically could take a cheek cell, and get it to divide in a dish for weeks. that too has 46 chromosomes, but the chances it will become a human being are the same as just a sperm+egg.

the catholic church persectuted Galileo for his scientific beliefs about the solar system because of their flawed understanding of the science. i think in time, the church probably will reexamine their stance on this issue because simply put, sperm+egg in a DISH without hormones has an astronimical chance of ever becoming a human being. in fact, the embryo will only divide up to a certain size, and then it will stop and die.

maybe your husband understands this, and does not feel that adding sperm+egg in a dish is really destroying a human being. if maternal hormones NEVER come into contact with the eggs he is working with, the cells absolutely cannot become a human being.
please ask him to explain it to you as he sees it.

the simple fact is that even when a sperm and egg join and their chromosomes align, there are parts of their DNA that are literally inaccessable. this means that unless outside influence unwinds the DNA, this egg+sperm has the same chance of becoming a human being as just a spermalone. about zero. and the church does not consider a sperm nor egg to be a human being.

maybe God designed things this way in order for humans to access the possibilities of stem cells, while never destroying life. ever wonder why eggs fertilized in vitro MUST be placed into the mother? wouldnt it be a trillion dollar industry if scientists could grow a baby for parents in a dish and the mother never has to carry nor birth it? simple reason is that maternal hormones must ALWAYS be present in order to properly develop a fertilized egg into a human.
 
Sorry BioCatholic, the argument you are giving is FALSE. I too have a degree in BioChem, I’ve worked in Genetic Engineering (thank God I didn’t work on human egg or fetal cells!) and I just recently attended a conference on Catholic BioEthics that specifically addressed the concerns of Genetic Engineering as it pertains to Fetal Stem Cell lines.

The concerns Psychologist101 raises are real and valid. Her reasoning is correct. These are babies being killed at the altar of pseudo-science. I say pseudo-science because much to-do is being made of how these fetal stem cells lines will assist us in cures. In reality, the fetal stem cells lines have a greater potential for use in assessing various toxicities of pharmaceuticals during the test stage, then they will ever have in curing diseases. Their lack of differentiation and their rapid rates of reproduction are incompatible with adults and result in the formation of horrible teratomas (nasty cancers with bone, tooth and hair cells among others that grow where ever the stem cells are injected, such as the brain, killing the patient who received them in S. Korea I think).

On the other hand, there has been excellent progress in using adult stem cells that require the death of NO-ONE. Approximately a hundred different diseases have been either treated or cured through the use of adult stem cells. There is yet to be a single cure using fetal stem cells.

The reason for the interest in Fetal Stem Cell lines is that they can be patented and grown indefinitely, allowing companies to profit on the selling of these strains to be used in various test protocols. This would make the test results and the associated papers easier to publish, as others could reproduce their results using the same test parameters (a known strain as a test subject).

They’re selling the idea that fetal cell lines will be the cure for what ills us, but the lines have more potential value as test subjects. Yup, we should create life to kill it so we can have human test subjects in the labs. Oh, I feel real good about that! NOT!

CARose
 
Psychologist101,

I’m sorry I got side tracked, but I needed to respond to BioCath’s post.

As for your quandary, argh, that’s a tough one, isn’t it!

Have you talked to your priest or a Spiritual Guide / Assistant? It sounds like you’re in a situation where you need some help as you tackle a very serious concern.

I’m in a tough marriage, and I have not opted for a seperation, but my circumstances are quite different from yours. It seems to me that if you have educated yourself on the subject of Human Embryo cloning (somatic cell nuclear transfer) and the moral implications by attending conferences or reading what the church has consistantly taught on the sanctity of life and you have tried sharing some of this with your husband, you’re in a tough spot.

How receptive is he to the fact that you’re concerned about what he’s doing? If there were an excellent seminar, talk, conference on the subject, would he, simply to placate you, be willing to attend? If so, I suggest you look up Fr. Tad from Fox River, MA. He’s awesome on the subject. I can give you a few other names, and you may want to get Dr. Janet Smith’s tape series on Humanae Vitae. It’s available through St. Joseph Communications for $24.95. Educate yourself as fully as possible on the churches position on this.

It may well be that your husband will have a total conversion of the heart as he learns the truth of what he’s doing. I also recommend that you begin attending Eucharistic Adoration in reparation for his sins. If you can go on a weekly basis, that would be a good start.

It’s possible that this will require your seperating from him and not accepting his financial help, as you know it is blood money. I am so sorry for the pain you are suffering. I will pray for you as you go through this challenging time.

I will especially pray that your husband come to know the truth and accept it as such before he loses his most wonderful wife.

God Bless you, your husband and your marriage,

CARose
 
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CARose:
On the other hand, there has been excellent progress in using adult stem cells that require the death of NO-ONE. Approximately a hundred different diseases have been either treated or cured through the use of adult stem cells. There is yet to be a single cure using fetal stem cells.
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CARose, since you seem to be knowledgeable, can you answer what I hope is a brief question (not worth its own thread)? How long have they been working with adult stem cells verses working with fetal stem cells? Has one had substantially more time and money invested in it to this point? Or have they received equal share?
 
There has been a moratorium on the use of Federal money on Fetal stem cell research beyond a limited number of cell lines in existance before the moratorium was put into place (approximately 22 lines, I might be wrong on this number, it might be as low as 12 surviving lines). This is not the same as saying there has been no research on these cells as evidenced by the work being done by Psy101’s husband.

The exact amount of money or research done on one strain or the other is not something that can be easily ascertained as much research is privately funded and does not get published unless they get the results they want.

Right now, they can get patents on work done with Fetal Stem Cells, but they cannot patent any procedures done using Adult Stem Cells. So there is a great financial incentive to find solutions using Fetal Stem Cells. (Because the fetus has not been born, it’s tissue can be patented.)

But the fetal stem cells have not differentiated sufficiently to reduce the risk of developing into any number of troublesome tissue types when introduced to the adult. The adult stem cells, on the other hand, seem to have a capability of sensing where the damage lies and adapting to heal the damage, as has been seen with a young woman who was given adult stem cells and walked for the first time in 19 years. Mind you she still requires braces to walk, and by walk, we mean she can now only take a few unaided steps, but she has been wheelchair bound her entire life, after suffering a childhood spinal cord injury.

Why is the media so silent on these miraculous break throughs? Why are they not questioning the incentive behind all the claims for fetal stem cell research? It seems to me they are complicit in the facilitation of a grave evil.

CARose
 
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CARose:
Why is the media so silent on these miraculous break throughs? Why are they not questioning the incentive behind all the claims for fetal stem cell research? It seems to me they are complicit in the facilitation of a grave evil.

CARose
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Thanks CARose! I agree about possible complicity. In Illinois the governor via executive order (probably only way it was going to happen) has set aside funds expressly for fetal stem cell research (on top of balancing the budget on the backs of teachers pensions). I think IL is only maybe the second state to do this? Anyway…:mad: BOO on Rod Blagojevich!

Hopefully I’m done with the hijack…the main topic is so overwhelmingly sad! I wish I knew what to say about that.😦
 
Psych101,

Know that you, your husband and your marriage, along with your husbands understanding of what he’s doing (or lack of understanding to date) are in my prayers.

CARose
 
i am such an idiot. i should have realized when you said Glaxo-Smith-Klein.

OK remember a little while ago, Bill Frist and Arlen Specter were approached to support a type of theraputic cloning where before the nuclear transfer was done, the egg itself was treated so that development into a human was NEVER possible.

Frist and Specter themselves said the technique was 100% compatible with the pro-life stance because way before the egg filled with the donor nucleus, they actually treat it with “something” (probably patented and proprietary) so that the total and final package is human, but not quite.

therefore, since a small part of this new cloned egg is no longer present, it cannot nor will not EVER develop into a human NO MATTER WHAT.

its like saying i’m 99% alive, or Im 99% married. if you are 99% married and alive, then you are single and dead.

same applies to this technique. if it is 99% human, then its NOT human.

if your husband is uses this technique, then indeed he is doing absolutely nothing wrong. the time you say he got his “promition” is exactly right around the time when this technique was in its final stages of development.

he is however, a complete jerk for not TRYING to explain it to you. you are a psychologist so ill assume youve had bio 101 and 102, so you do understand what im saying.
 
The technique suggested by BioCatholic is potentially acceptable theologically. However, I would have a difficult time myself walking such a fine line at this point. I personally would find this research every bit as distasteful as any other that desecrates any human egg.

The collection of human eggs in the majority of cases (exception being from an intact uterus donated when a woman dies or is harvested and frozen before she receives Chemotherapy and she doesn’t survive the cancer, but these are extremely rare in terms of how eggs are derived) is a very toxic process for the woman. The use of hormones to stimulate hyper-ovulation frequently result in the donor contracting cancer 10 - 15 years down the road, often when she has finally gotten old enough to have a family of her own.

As women, we need to be aware that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we have a responsibility to care for ourselves, including our potential future generations.

But that’s just my thoughts on the subject.

CARose
 
“its like saying i’m 99% alive, or Im 99% married. if you are 99% married and alive, then you are single and dead. same applies to this technique. if it is 99% human, then its NOT human.”

I’m sorry, BioCatholic, but this argument does not hold water.

Is an amputee 100 per cent human? Only if we consider the brain, not the body, as the deciding factor.

Is a profoundly brain-damaged person, unable to make a decision at all, let alone both thinking abstractly and able to make moral choices (which defines humans) 100 per cent human? Only if we consider the body, not the brain, as the deciding factor.

Is a miscarried, undeveloped baby 100 per cent human? Then an embryo in a petri dish is human.

As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between an embryo in a woman’s womb, where it belongs, and an embryo in a petri dish. The one in the petri dish got there by methods the Church condemns, because they are against the theology of the body.

What’s in the petri dish is not a blob of glup. It is a human being.

Psych101, you have a tough row to hoe. God bless and keep you. I’ll pray for you and your husband.
 
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psychologist101:
My husband and I have been married for about 2 years, and got married right at the end of his PHD in neuroscience. He got a job with GlaxoSmithKlein as a research associate, and after a year, got a huge promition and pay raise. We moved into nothing short of a dream house, got rid of the horrific cars we had, and were living so well.

I thought that it was just the stress of defending his PHD that had taken a toll on his faith temporarily, him missing church alot, but i never would have guessed that his “big promotion” entailed helping CREATE embryonic stem cell lines for his company. The new house, cars, food, bills, EVERYTHING to me is blood money made from the killing of innocent embyos for human gain. I have tried and tried to get him to leave this job, but he refuses because it is so much money.

Michelle
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Have you talked to your husband about him making a research proposal using adult stem cells or those derived from umbilical cords? I’m not a medical researcher or a developmental biologist but as someone who is involved in the field of research (i.e., marine ecology), it’s also part of our job to make research proposals. There have been a lot of breakthroughs in adult stem cell research and maybe your husband would consider pursuing this field. Just a suggestion.
 
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psychologist101:
…entailed helping CREATE embryonic stem cell lines for his company.
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Recent news seems to indicate that GlaxoSmithKline did not use embryonic stem cells.
66.195.16.55/bio910.html

This organization associated with the University of Edinburgh and apparently funded by GlaxoSmithKline seems to use only embryonic stem cells taken from ***mice ***in actual experimentation.
iscr.ed.ac.uk/research/research-groups.html

This organization ISCR is associated with other organizations that seem to use/promote human embryonic stem cells I cannot find direct involvement/funding of GlaxoSmithKline with these other organizations.

GlaxoSmithKline used/uses human embryonic stem cells in a vaccine. This is apparently not related to current research/harvesting of human embryonic stem cells.

Are you sure your husband is not using stem cells from mice? I can’t find evidence of GlaxoSmithKline’s direct involvement with human embryonic stem cell research that you indicate.
 
BioCath, That IS an interesting distinction.

As far as I know, there is nothing implicitly immoral about doing research on an unfertilized egg. Nor a sperm. But putting a sperm together with a doctored up egg? Wow, brave new world. Worth discussion, but I’m not so sure either Bill Frist or the other guy get my vote as being the final word on morality.

In the end, whether earth orbits the sun or vice versa is NOT a moral issue. Thus, the church did not have jurisdiction to determine that issue.

But determining if an action is MURDER or not is rather definately within the moral sphere! Your assertion about the necessity of maternal hormones is moot. By that argument, one can say that abortion at 5 months is OK since the fetus cannot survive without maternal oxygen supply. Are you saying that?

To the OP, you surely need to get more facts. If after all, it turns out that he is indeed creating, then destroying human life for his reasearch, then you have some hard decisions to make. In principal, it would kinda be like knowing your husband pulled the levers at Auschwitz every day…

If it turns out that these are cells that do NOT have functional human DNA, that’s a little more complex and you need to do deeper research than asking a bunch of yahoos on a web forum! Good luck and God Bless you in this tough time.
 
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BioCatholic:
now i may get blasted for my reply, but the science behind this i know.

think of a racing car, you have the driver, the body of the car, and the engine as 3 simple parts. now lets say you get the driver and the body together, but fail to provide the engine. technically, this is not a racing car.

the same, scientifically, holds true for embryos. you have a sperm +egg+ MATERNAL HORMONES. you can add a sperm and egg together all you want, but until maternal hormones start DRIVING and DIRECTING the cell division, all you really end up with is a spherical mass of cells. even though the embryo may have 46 chromosomes, parts of its DNA are so tightly wound that they cannot be accessed to make things. maternal hormones can help unwind this DNA, and start the development process. i theorectically could take a cheek cell, and get it to divide in a dish for weeks. that too has 46 chromosomes, but the chances it will become a human being are the same as just a sperm+egg.

the catholic church persectuted Galileo for his scientific beliefs about the solar system because of their flawed understanding of the science. i think in time, the church probably will reexamine their stance on this issue because simply put, sperm+egg in a DISH without hormones has an astronimical chance of ever becoming a human being. in fact, the embryo will only divide up to a certain size, and then it will stop and die.

maybe your husband understands this, and does not feel that adding sperm+egg in a dish is really destroying a human being. if maternal hormones NEVER come into contact with the eggs he is working with, the cells absolutely cannot become a human being.
please ask him to explain it to you as he sees it.

the simple fact is that even when a sperm and egg join and their chromosomes align, there are parts of their DNA that are literally inaccessable. this means that unless outside influence unwinds the DNA, this egg+sperm has the same chance of becoming a human being as just a spermalone. about zero. and the church does not consider a sperm nor egg to be a human being.

maybe God designed things this way in order for humans to access the possibilities of stem cells, while never destroying life. ever wonder why eggs fertilized in vitro MUST be placed into the mother? wouldnt it be a trillion dollar industry if scientists could grow a baby for parents in a dish and the mother never has to carry nor birth it? simple reason is that maternal hormones must ALWAYS be present in order to properly develop a fertilized egg into a human.
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Wow. you really need to study philosophy. There is no other reasonable time when we can say life begins, than at conception. Sure maybe the embryo is like other cells, but it is not those other cells. It is the specific product of the male seed and the female egg. That makes it something else, not any plain old cell but one that is the product of the union of the husband and wife in the bond of love. Sure, maybe other cells can be changed into embryos, but until they are they are just cells. You also need to study history, your understanding of the Galileo contraversy is naive at best. It sounds more like you have bought into Protestant and secularist indoctrination on the matter than have actually looked into the history of the matter.
 
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