STEP Prayer Study

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Faith1960

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I posted about this before but was hoping for new insights. In 2006 a prayer study called STEP, the most comprehensive of its kind, came out and found that intercessory prayer has no effect on patients, and in fact, those prayed for did worse.

I dont want this thread to turn into anectdotes, just solid reasons why the STEP study was flawed, or explanations for why the results turned out so poorly.

Ideas?
 
I would have to read the study to gain better understanding.

Was it a controlled study??:confused:
 
Faith1960 said:
I posted about this before but was hoping for new insights. In 2006 a prayer study called STEP, the most comprehensive of its kind, came out and found that intercessory prayer has no effect on patients, and in fact, those prayed for did worse.

I dont want this thread to turn into anectdotes, just solid reasons why the STEP study was flawed, or explanations for why the results turned out so poorly.

Ideas?
Click to expand...
We don’t need studies, we simply need faith. I have never known prayer not to have impact on people. But, I didn’t look for data to provide me proof; I simply looked to my faith!
 
The STEP research study only measured the PHYSICAL effects
of the benefits for cardiac patients, they did not measure the
SPIRITUAL benefits derived from those who were prayed for!!!
“What is seen is temporary, while what is not seen is eternal”
says Paul in 2 Cor. 4:18
 
Faith1960 said:
I posted about this before but was hoping for new insights. In 2006 a prayer study called STEP, the most comprehensive of its kind, came out and found that intercessory prayer has no effect on patients, and in fact, those prayed for did worse.

I dont want this thread to turn into anectdotes, just solid reasons why the STEP study was flawed, or explanations for why the results turned out so poorly.

Ideas?
Click to expand...
Are we praying that God’s will be done or Our will be done? We may want someone to get well and that is understandable but God is not just considering this brief life we have, but eternity. Suffering which is some ways a mystery to us, may have a great impact on how we spend our eternities.

I often have found people do worse when we pray for them, but often people have to hit rock bottom before they look up. We want immediate and what we consider positive results but we don’t often see the bigger picture in the same way God does.
 
eatpraylove11 said:
I would have to read the study to gain better understanding.

Was it a controlled study??:confused:
Click to expand...
I dont know how to c&p on my kindle but yes, it was a very super controlled study, the most comprehensive study of its kind.
 
GLam8833 said:
The STEP research study only measured the PHYSICAL effects
of the benefits for cardiac patients, they did not measure the
SPIRITUAL benefits derived from those who were prayed for!!!
“What is seen is temporary, while what is not seen is eternal”
says Paul in 2 Cor. 4:18
Click to expand...
Yes, but the point is whether prayer can help cure illnesses.
 
Neofight said:
We don’t need studies, we simply need faith. I have never known prayer not to have impact on people. But, I didn’t look for data to provide me proof; I simply looked to my faith!
Click to expand...
I think we all have seen prayer work, or at least think it worked, but this study measured prayer vs outcome. It would seem to me thst if prayer has an effect on outcomes, we’d seen a higher number of better outcomes.

Almost all of the participants were either praying for themselves or had family members friends, church members etc. praying for them so…why not a higher number of positive outcome overall?
 
From what little I’ve read, the flaw I saw was that the STEP Study was putting God to the test by those who had no faith, and treating God as part of an experiment.

It was borderline taking God’s name in vain.

Also, it’s a misuse and understanding of prayer.

We pray to God for his will to be done, and for his grace to help us through whatever we or others have to go through.

We’re not praying for miracles, but God’s will and if it includes a miracle, praise God, if not, praise God anyway, for His will is all that matters in the end anyway.

Jim
 
Prayer yes can effect things - God has given us the dignity to pray and seek even healings via prayer. God involves us thus as a kind of cause - as brothers and sisters of each other. But God is not vending machine …

So miracles happen? Yes

Take for example those of Lourdes. Countless graces and healings etc there …

With 69 extensively examined approved ones (they are just those which are approved - after the most rigorous investigation - other various miracles would not even be able to be investigated for such due to say lack of record keeping prior etc)

en.lourdes-france.org/deepen/cures-and-miracles
 
JimR-OCDS said:
From what little I’ve read, the flaw I saw was that the STEP Study was putting God to the test by those who had no faith, and treating God as part of an experiment.
Click to expand...
No, the study was by the Templeton Foundation and faithfulnpeople, trying to prove that prayer does work.
Among the groups doing the praying was one or two groups of nuns. 😦
 
Faith1960 said:
No, the study was by the Templeton Foundation and faithfulnpeople, trying to prove that prayer does work.
Among the groups doing the praying was one or two groups of nuns. 😦
Click to expand...
The motive for the experiment is to prove whether God listens to prayer or not.

It’s experimenting with God.

Jim
 
Bookcat said:
Prayer yes can effect things - God has given us the dignity to pray and seek even healings via prayer. God involves us thus as a kind of cause - as brothers and sisters of each other. But God is not vending machine …

So miracles happen? Yes

Take for example those of Lourdes. Countless graces and healings etc there …

With 69 extensively examined approved ones (they are just those which are approved - after the most rigorous investigation - other various miracles would not even be able to be investigated for such due to say lack of record keeping prior etc)

en.lourdes-france.org/deepen/cures-and-miracles
Click to expand...
But some things that are considered incurable just dont get cured. Down Syndrome, amputations etc
  1. If God really answered prayer, why are there situations that cant and wont be cured?
  2. If God really answered prayer, why were the positive results so low? Wouldn’t there have been higher percentages with better outcomes in the STEP Study?
 
Faith1960 said:
But some things that are considered incurable just dont get cured. Down Syndrome, amputations etc
  1. If God really answered prayer, why are there situations that cant and wont be cured?
  2. If God really answered prayer, why were the positive results so low? Wouldn’t there have been higher percentages with better outcomes in the STEP Study?
Click to expand...
Down Syndrome likely could be rather said to be part of who that person is - so why make someone who is a splendid example of love and hope etc - for us in this life - into something different?

As to amputations - It may rather be the case that such has happened in history.

But none the less - there are countless ways that persons can become injured in life or have disease or disability etc. It is not like one needs a “miracle” example in every kind. That is not how miracles work. The point is that miracles have taken place and do take place. The point towards what is the greatest gift -to know God. To be “in Christ” and thus know true life here and later in Heaven -and then the resurrection of the body.

Life here is a pilgrimage - not an end.
  1. See the above.
  2. Other “studies” as I recall found other “results” (sorry I do not recall them).
Also studies in emp. science change all the time -one overturns the next. One day something “bad for you” and the next year it is “not bad for you”. They are not the means really to approach the question of prayer with. As a blood test is not the way for me to know my wife’s love.

And what Jim noted above is worth thinking about regarding God not being someone to put in a test tube and experiment with.
 
Bookcat said:
Down Syndrome likely could be rather said to be part of who that person is - so why make someone who is a splendid example of love and hope etc - for us in this life - into something different?

As to amputations - It may rather be the case that such has happened in history.

But none the less - there are countless ways that persons can become injured in life or have disease or disability etc. It is not like one needs a “miracle” example in every kind. That is not how miracles work. The point is that miracles have taken place and do take place. The point towards what is the greatest gift -to know God. To be “in Christ” and thus know true life here and later in Heaven -and then the resurrection of the body.

Life here is a pilgrimage - not an end.
  1. See the above.
  2. Other “studies” as I recall found other “results”. Studies in emp. science change all the time -one overturns the next. One day something “bad for you” and the next year it is “not bad for you”. They are not the means really to approach the question of prayer with. As a blood test is not the way for me to know my wife’s love.
And what Jim noted above is worth thinking about regarding God not being someone to put in a test tube and experiment with.
Click to expand...
  1. Are there any amputations restored in the Bible, besides the guys ear? I’ve read that possibly lepers were missing limbs but then later read that its a misconception that they lose their fingers and toes.
    I did also read that rats have been known to chew them off during their sleep but dont know if thats true or not.
2)Supposedly, the previous studies were flawed and this was the best of it’s kind.
 
Faith1960 said:
Supposedly, the previous studies were flawed and this was the best of it’s kind.
Click to expand...
So would say everyone about their own study …or the study that supports their ideas…
Bottom line is that Prayer is a reality - and indeed a relationship. But not really something that can be put into a beaker and “studied”.

Shall I put my wife into a beaker and study her…draw some blood to find out if she loves me?

No.

Each kind of knowledge has approaches fitting to it. For which approaches from other aspects of life are not fitting.
 
Faith1960 said:
Are there any amputations restored in the Bible, besides the guys ear?.
Click to expand...
What we need 2? or 4?

Putting a persons ear back on in the first century…

(we do not need examples of every possible kind of miracle…such is not the purpose of miracles).
 
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