STEP Prayer Study

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Faith1960 said:
I still dont know why we dont see a higher number of positive outcomes after prayer, though.
It seems like the odds of getting prayer answered is 50/50 whether we pray or not. :confused:
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Actually according to what you noted it was 57 positive to 43 …

But that still are not “valid” results. For one cannot study such - tis not open to study by empirical studies.

And Prayer is not about odds. It is not a “medication” that can be evaluated with a study.

And it really is *not *a matter that *can *be “studied” like that.

So there is no need to be surprised that in this or that attempted study - the proposed results are not what one would expect.

If I attempted to find out if my wife loves me by a blood test

I ought not be surprised the test comes up as some odd number I do not expect.

My wife will tell me - your being silly. You cannot measure my love for you with a test like that!
 
“We cannot “do an experiment” in which God has to respond and show that he is God”
~ Pope Benedict XVI

Such is applies not only “ought not”-- but to “cannot” - tis not a subject one can run an empirical experiment on…
 
Bookcat said:
Actually according to what you noted it was 57 positive to 43 …

But that still are not “valid” results. For one cannot study such - tis not open to study by empirical studies.

And Prayer is not about odds. It is not a “medication” that can be evaluated with a study.

And it really is *not *a matter that *can *be “studied” like that.

So there is no need to be surprised that in this or that attempted study - the proposed results are not what one would expect.

If I attempted to find out if my wife loves me by a blood test

I ought not be surprised the test comes up as some odd number I do not expect.

My wife will tell me - your being silly. You cannot measure my love for you with a test like that!
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Im not just talking about prayer studies, though, I’m talking about everyday life. It seems prayer doesnt have an effect on much of anything – that the outcome doesnt seem to be affected by prayer.
 
Faith1960 said:
Im not just talking about prayer studies, though, I’m talking about everyday life. It seems prayer doesnt have an effect on much of anything – that the outcome doesnt seem to be affected by prayer.
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See my various posts above…

There is a good deal in em.
 
In a nutshell, is the answer that God’s will be done, and if we pray against His will, we won’t see any results, which is why with all that praying going on, including the 96% of patients who reported friends and relatives were praying for them along with churches, chaplains, nurses and doctors praying – there wasn’t much difference in those prayed for vs those who weren’t?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
From what little I’ve read, the flaw I saw was that the STEP Study was putting God to the test by those who had no faith, and treating God as part of an experiment.

It was borderline taking God’s name in vain.

Also, it’s a misuse and understanding of prayer.

We pray to God for his will to be done, and for his grace to help us through whatever we or others have to go through.

We’re not praying for miracles, but God’s will and if it includes a miracle, praise God, if not, praise God anyway, for His will is all that matters in the end anyway.

Jim
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So whether we pray or not His will will be done, with an occasional miracle here and there?
 
I honestly don’t know what to think.

We are called to believe in miracles, yet to understand that it is their very rarity that makes them miraculous.

And if we yell “miracle” whenever all the gates open to allow a happy ending, what are we to say when all the gates close so as to cause a tragedy?

ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
I honestly don’t know what to think.

We are called to believe in miracles, yet to understand that it is their very rarity that makes them miraculous.

And if we yell “miracle” whenever all the gates open to allow a happy ending, what are we to say when all the gates close so as to cause a tragedy?

ICXC NIKA.
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Good question. Anybody have the answer?
 
I found an article online that says, in part, " our place is to follow the example of Jesus, who prayed on Thursday that He not have to go through what He was to go through that Friday. But He also prayed “Not my will, but Thine.”…
Intercessory prayer does not work by your own power, as if you were the Almighty. When prayer is answered it is answered in God’s way, and it may not be at all like the victory you are claiming…"

Is THAT the answer? , And if so, why, still, weren’t the numbers of those getting well higher?

Most of the prayer studies, regardless of the outcomes, the numbers are close. Why is that?
 
GEddie said:
What do you mean by this?
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I mean that with the prayer studies, the number of outcomes of of those getting better after prayer are near 50/50. I would think that if God answered prayer, those numbers would be higher, because in addition to the intercessors, the patients were being prayed for by family members, friends, and probably themselves, chaplains, nurses, and doctors.

Why only near 50/50?
 
Faith1960 said:
I mean that with the prayer studies, the number of outcomes of of those getting better after prayer are near 50/50. I would think that if God answered prayer, those numbers would be higher, because in addition to the intercessors, the patients were being prayed for by family members, friends, and probably themselves, chaplains, nurses, and doctors.

Why only near 50/50?
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If I could answer that, I would, chica.

ICXC NIKA
 
Faith1960 said:
Can SOMEBODY please answer it?
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I’m not sure what you’re looking for.

The reality is, prayer helps people of faith get through whatever suffering they may go through.

There isn’t a cure for every person who has people praying for them, that’s part of our fallen state.

We all eventually die, fact of life.

The best you can do is place yourself in God’s hands, for in the end, that’s where you want to be in the next life.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I’m not sure what you’re looking for.

The reality is, prayer helps people of faith get through whatever suffering they may go through.

There isn’t a cure for every person who has people praying for them, that’s part of our fallen state.

We all eventually die, fact of life.

The best you can do is place yourself in God’s hands, for in the end, that’s where you want to be in the next life.

Jim
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I’m looking for, why, after ALL those people praying for heart study patients to have few complications and a speedy recovery, why the outcome was near 50/50.
It would seem to me that with all that praying, we’d see a higher number of patients do better.
 
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