Stephen Fry - Why does God let children suffer?

[MatthewMckibben]

Well, I think their argument is this: IF God exists, then he is not a good god for letting children suffer.

Sure, but that’s a logical fallacy. I could argue, using the same format, If Guns exist, then guns are not good because they kill people. But that’s asinine. That is not an argument. So, that leads me to think, the atheist’s argument is redundant.

 

[PRmerger]

Sure, but that’s a logical fallacy. I could argue, using the same format, If Guns exist, then guns are not good because they kill people. But that’s asinine. That is not an argument. So, that leads me to think, the atheist’s argument is redundant.

No. I think their question is a valid one. And all good Christian apologists ought to acknowledge the validity of their question.

It’s a perennial problem for Christians called “The Problem of Suffering” and I think it best to admit that the question begs for an answer.

That said, I think there have been numerous thoughtful, well-argued responses to the atheist’s question: how could a good God permit suffering?

But I think it inutile to dismiss the question.

It is something, indeed, that needs to be answered.

 

[clem456]

The question can’t be avoided. Every single human being will come up against the problem of suffering. If one says that suffering does not make for hard questions, I would question the sincerity.

 

[faithsmind]

OK yeah you’re right. I guess the question isn’t bunk, ha! It’s an important one that everyone asks, eventually.

BTW PR your meme is cracking me up!

 

[jmcrae]

Um, and one more thing–

Even though I’ve already responded to Fry’s question,

I think his question is bunk because it automatically assumes that an adult (whatever that is lol) deserves his suffering. I mean, really, we are all children of God. I’d argue that no one understands or truly deserves most of the suffering he/she encounters.

A better question would be: Why would God give us bodies and stick us on earth? But I suppose that’s a topic for another thread.

I have begun to wonder why God created the vast majority of people with one hand that doesn’t operate correctly. Never mind left-handed or right-handed - what’s up with having only one good hand?!

As to the suffering, God came to earth, became a human being, and suffered and died on the Cross for our sins, instead of simply saying, “hey, forget it - you’re all forgiven!”, or, erasing our ability to commit sin and making us perfect.

 

[MFHMFH]

For me, I’m not an atheist…I’m more of an agnostic.

With that, I think that their arguments make more sense. I prefer logic. As humans - for the most part - have learned over the millennia about what is right and wrong, good and bad, etc., we no longer need anymore suffering to happen in order for us to get the point. I mean - how many times do we need to go through ethnic cleansing, child abuse, and other horrors? I don’t claim to know why God allows these things to happen…but I sure would like to know why - if he exists. As a imperfect human, it pains me to see and hear of horrors on a daily basis. I don’t get it.
If there is no God, then all of the horrors happening would make sense, as there would be no one more powerful than us to stop them - or care.

And I hope that my beliefs do not offend anyone here, as this is not my intention.

 

[faithsmind]

MFHMFH said "For me, I’m not an atheist…I’m more of an agnostic.

With that, I think that their arguments make more sense. I prefer logic."

If you prefer logic, then how do you deal with the concept of love? I wanna know. How does it play into your own personal life, if I may ask?

 

[Peter_Plato]

For me, I’m not an atheist…I’m more of an agnostic.

With that, I think that their arguments make more sense. I prefer logic. As humans - for the most part - have learned over the millennia about what is right and wrong, good and bad, etc., we no longer need anymore suffering to happen in order for us to get the point.

Wait a minute…

Aren’t you supposing that “getting the point” simply means getting the point that suffering is not desirable?

I would suppose THAT point was got the first time humans suffered, no?

The REAL point which needs to be GOT has to do with what we humans need to do to STOP suffering. Apparently, we haven’t suffered sufficiently to get THAT point or we would have done everything we could have done to stop it.

Have we?

As you say…

I mean - how many times do we need to go through ethnic cleansing, child abuse, and other horrors? I don’t claim to know why God allows these things to happen…but I sure would like to know why - if he exists. As a imperfect human, it pains me to see and hear of horrors on a daily basis. I don’t get it.

Neither do I.

If there is no God, then all of the horrors happening would make sense,…

Make sense? Wha…t?

…as there would be no one more powerful than us to stop them - or care.

Does “moral responsibility” mean anything here?

Why does stopping horrors depend upon some one “more powerful than us?”

Why does “caring” mean stopping us in spite of ourselves?

And I hope that my beliefs do not offend anyone here, as this is not my intention.

Excellent.

 

[faithsmind]

The REAL point which needs to be GOT has to do with what we humans need to do to STOP suffering. Apparently, we haven’t suffered sufficiently to get THAT point or we would have done everything we could have done to stop it.

Have we?
.

I don’t understand this. Im not sure you are being rhetorical here, but it’d be virtually impossible to stop pain from occurring in this physical world of change. There’s no way around it. I know I said earlier that I think there’s less suffering these days in the first worlds. But recently I’ve changed my mind. Of course we can be sure there’s more medication.

 

[faithsmind]

MFHMFH said "For me, I’m not an atheist…I’m more of an agnostic.

With that, I think that their arguments make more sense. I prefer logic."

If you prefer logic, then how do you deal with the concept of love? I wanna know. How does it play into your own personal life, if I may ask?

I’ve decided to rephrase my question to be clearer.
If there is no God, then why does the physical and mental body fail to thrive, and even enter into pain if a human is not in loving relationship with other humans? Where is the logic in that?

 

[MFHMFH]

Moral responsibility has a lot to do with it…whether there is a God or not, or whether one believes in God or not.
Our species (with the exception of some who are insane) knows the difference between right and wrong, and behave - or should behave - accordingly.

Love? A beautiful human emotion…that I see everyday in loving parents, couples…friendship and family. Religion - or a belief in a deity - isn’t required in order to love and care for another person.

 

[GaryTaylor]

If there is no God, then why does the physical and mental body fail to thrive, and even enter into pain if a human is not in loving relationship with other humans? Where is the logic in that?

I don’t understand what makes you think this. God or no God, a loving relationship is not required for you to thrive, nor does the lacking of it result in body failure. Love is required, one, as we see may simply Love themself.

 

[MFHMFH]

As far as my comment with ‘getting the point’…
I’ve always heard that we - humans - suffer for a reason…what is that reason, exactly?
In thousands of years, what have we ‘learned’ to keep suffering from happening? (Are we so dumb - or blind - that we can’t figure out what God is teaching us)? Do we continue to suffer, since we’re too dumb to do what God wants us to do to stop it?
Of course, we should continue to be the best we can be, and that would include helping those who are suffering - who may be less fortunate than us. This should be done without expecting a reward. But, as far as God goes…then what?

 

[GaryTaylor]

As far as my comment with ‘getting the point’…
I’ve always heard that we - humans - suffer for a reason…what is that reason, exactly?
In thousands of years, what have we ‘learned’ to keep suffering from happening? (Are we so dumb - or blind - that we can’t figure out what God is teaching us)? Do we continue to suffer, since we’re too dumb to do what God wants us to do to stop it?
Of course, we should continue to be the best we can be, and that would include helping those who are suffering - who may be less fortunate than us. This should be done without expecting a reward. But, as far as God goes…then what?

Mortality, your mortal thats why you suffer. It not a matter of keeping it from happening. Its a matter of understanding we all have an expiration date and someone is gonna feel pain and suffer. We can rest assure of it.

You don’t seem to talking about this, but a different kind of suffering,

Do we continue to suffer, since we’re too dumb to do what God wants us to do to stop it?

Do you think your emotional suffering is attributed to your ignorance of God? Not everyone ignorant of God suffers physically or emotionally.

 

[faithsmind]

I don’t understand what makes you think this. God or no God, a loving relationship is not required for you to thrive, nor does the lacking of it result in body failure. Love is required, one, as we see may simply Love themself.

If you actually believe this, watch this Ted Talk:
[ YouTube](http:// YouTube)

and get back with me with your disagreements, though I might have trouble accepting your reasoning over hers unless you give me more of your research/qualifications.

 

[faithsmind]

Love? A beautiful human emotion…that I see everyday in loving parents, couples…friendship and family. Religion - or a belief in a deity - isn’t required in order to love and care for another person.

So this is your logic as to why and how love exists within a physical world?

Unfortunately, most agnostics and atheists don’t try to answer this question because love is very comfortable. Pain is not, and that gets the brain to start thinking lol. Tackling this question is relevant to this thread, because when we try to answer this question, then we find our reason for the existence of pain. Once again, The physical world allows for change and death, which can result in pain. But this pliability of the physical world allows for the ability for a human to choose. And without choice, there is no possibility for the existence of love. Love, in its very nature, cannot exist unless it is a conscious choice.

The best answer I could find to the physical basis for love’s existence, so far, has been this answer from a biophysicist:
“Love is an emotion that has developed because evolutionary survival is about perpetuation of genes rather than welfare of individuals. Because it is often necessary to sacrifice the individual for the perpetuation of the gene, love must be hardwired. The extent of this hardwiring, which operates outside of the priorities of personal reasoning, depends not only on the degree of gene sharing but also on the extent to which the recipient of the love can increase the survival of people with your genes (including yourself and your children). For example, maternal love > spousal love > love for mankind > love for all life.”

But this limited response fails to give an answer to the doctor’s findings in the Ted Talk I referenced above. It does not answer the question of why we have such a desire and intense physical and emotional needs for unconditional love or adult philos companionship.

 

[MFHMFH]

What I’m trying to say - in a nutshell - is that life, love, etc. will have its ups and downs. And it doesn’t have anything to do with a deity.
As humans, we should all strive to be the best that we can be, regardless as to whether there is a god or not, or whether we believe in God or not.

For me, it is easier to understand the horrors of the world when there is no deity to depend on. Or lay blame on.
Humanity - in all its glory and disgustingness - is responsible for itself.

Thank you for allowing me to participate in this forum.

 

[PRmerger]

Humanity - in all its glory and disgustingness - is responsible for itself.

How do you answer your 8 yr old daughter who says “Why, Daddy?”

“Why are human beings so mean to each other? And why am I not perfect? I don’t think I’m supposed to forget mom’s phone number. But I do. I don’t think I like being mean to Kendall. But sometimes I am. Why?”

 

[adamhovey1988]

I am right handed. I used to be left handed. Therefore, since I changed my mind, God doesn’t exist. (God does exist, by the way, and I really did used to be left handed)
Anyway, I hope this video makes a difference. Maybe, maybe not. Seems logical to me.
youtube.com/watch?v=rhy2bT0CHFo

 

[clem456]

…
Humanity - in all its glory and disgustingness - is responsible for itself.
…
Thank you for allowing me to participate in this forum.

Thanks for being here.
Let me observe that your statement above requires some faith. It is impossible to come to the definitive conclusion that humanity is responsible for it’s own existence. To come to that conclusion, we should be able to point to evidence that we created ourselves. Yet the best we can do is claim that a man and a woman cooperated to create us. Yet they did not create a new one of us every time they had sex, right? One unique conception came about with the cooperation of your parents.

We have no responsibility in our own creation. It is either a random unexplainable accident or something (someone) -other than ourselves- is truly responsible for our life. And that is what we call a gift, because someone else is responsible for a good that we have.